Why Trump is self-assured and cocky at his rallies

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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13 February 2019 12:59
 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support 

quotes from this article:

“The sheer ordinariness of Trump’s coalition is impossible to overstate. Data from the Voter Study Group show that more than 80% of his votes came from men and women who voted for Republican nominee Mitt Romney just four years before. This group contains the usual suspects among American Republicans: tax-cut advocates, religious evangelicals and Catholics, gun rights supporters and business types eager for deregulation. Trump has made sure to give each faction what they most desire just like any good politician would. That keeps them in his camp even as the media flays him with each supposed transgression.

Evangelicals are a case in point. My work on Republican factions, contained in the book I co-authored with Professor Dante Scala, , found that very conservative voters who highly value social issues comprise about 25% of the party. These voters today are very afraid that liberal and progressive judges will slowly circumscribe their ability to practice their religion in their daily lives. They tended not to support Trump during the primaries, instead backing the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Their support for Trump now is highly transactional: so long as he nominates the judges they think will protect their beliefs and way of life, they will overlook virtually anything else he says or does.

 

 

 
 
Abel Dean
 
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Abel Dean
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13 February 2019 20:43
 

It makes Republicans obvious hypocrites when they magnify the tiniest character flaws among Democrats. But, such voting behavior seems to be in their own moral interests. It is the moral consequences of just one man (perhaps relevant because he is a popular role model?) versus the moral consequences of millions of people through the laws that this man affects. It is a choice of stopping millions of abortions (which they see as infanticide) at the expense of allowing a man to be president who says such things as that he loves to reflexively grab women by the pussy because he can get away with it. If you make a moral equivalence between fetuses and babies (and they sincerely do), then the choice is overwhelmingly easy. Democrats in contrast seem to tolerate much less the perceived moral flaws of their own candidates. In the nineties and early aughts I seem to remember that Republicans were more this way and Democrats less this way, and things have changed. Liberals by and large have seemingly become much more ideologically puritan, Republicans less so, and it means that Democrats have less power, as they are more likely to turn against their own best candidates for small offenses.

 
unsmoked
 
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14 February 2019 12:22
 
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 08:43 PM

It makes Republicans obvious hypocrites when they magnify the tiniest character flaws among Democrats. But, such voting behavior seems to be in their own moral interests. It is the moral consequences of just one man (perhaps relevant because he is a popular role model?) versus the moral consequences of millions of people through the laws that this man affects. It is a choice of stopping millions of abortions (which they see as infanticide) at the expense of allowing a man to be president who says such things as that he loves to reflexively grab women by the pussy because he can get away with it. If you make a moral equivalence between fetuses and babies (and they sincerely do), then the choice is overwhelmingly easy. Democrats in contrast seem to tolerate much less the perceived moral flaws of their own candidates. In the nineties and early aughts I seem to remember that Republicans were more this way and Democrats less this way, and things have changed. Liberals by and large have seemingly become much more ideologically puritan, Republicans less so, and it means that Democrats have less power, as they are more likely to turn against their own best candidates for small offenses.

Do the Democrats understand Trump’s verbal shell game?  As the mainstream media rushes to expose Trump’s lies, do they know that he is playing them?  That the lies are his modus operandi?  Do supporters cheering at Trump’s rallies believe the lies, or cheer because they understand his game?  (Like his lawyer, Giuliani, calling him a genius because he is able to evade taxes year after year). https://www.vox.com/2018/11/15/18047360/trump-state-of-the-union-speech-2019-george-lakoff

quote from this article:

“As the Washington Post noted in December, the president has made more than 7,500 false claims during the first 710 days of his presidency. That’s ... a lot.

Trump’s lying has put the press in a lose-lose situation. As Vox’s Ezra Klein has argued, Trump thrives on opposition, and often the media plays right into his hands, feverishly chasing every lie and half-truth he utters or tweets.

Last November, I reached out to George Lakoff, a professor of linguistics and cognitive science at UC Berkeley and the author of the 2004 book Don’t Think of an Elephant. Lakoff believes Trump exploits “journalistic convention by providing rapid-fire news events for reporters to chase” — this is what he calls the “big lie” strategy.

According to Lakoff, Trump uses lies to divert attention from the “big truths,” or the things he doesn’t want the media to cover. This allows him to create the controversies he wants and capitalize on the outrage and confusion they generate, while simultaneously stoking his base and forcing the press into the role of “opposition party.”

I spoke to Lakoff last year about how the media should deal with Trump’s lying. A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.”

  (see article for more)

[ Edited: 14 February 2019 12:28 by unsmoked]
 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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14 February 2019 14:11
 

Trump is self-assured and cocky at his rallies because he is the leader of a cult: the Cult of Donald Trump.

His hypnotized cult-followers lap up everything he says, no matter how false, idiotic or self-serving and grandiose.

They are in a state of cognitive dissonance. Orwell, in his book 1984 called it “doublethink”: the ability to hold two completely contradictory thoughts simultaneously while believing both of them to be true. Sure, Donald is lying through his teeth, but he’s lying for my benefit. He’s putting those “elites” in their proper place. He’s beating them at their own game. “We’re Winning.”

 
 
Twissel
 
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14 February 2019 22:15
 

Trump isn’t cocky, he is getting high: his brain requires direct, positive feedback.
He will chance the dragon of getting more cheers from the crowd, even if that means he says stuff that will hurt him later - it’s all about getting his Fix.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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15 February 2019 09:31
 
Cheshire Cat - 14 February 2019 02:11 PM

Trump is self-assured and cocky at his rallies because he is the leader of a cult: the Cult of Donald Trump.

His hypnotized cult-followers lap up everything he says, no matter how false, idiotic or self-serving and grandiose.

They are in a state of cognitive dissonance. Orwell, in his book 1984 called it “doublethink”: the ability to hold two completely contradictory thoughts simultaneously while believing both of them to be true. Sure, Donald is lying through his teeth, but he’s lying for my benefit. He’s putting those “elites” in their proper place. He’s beating them at their own game. “We’re Winning.”

Yep.  Trump is the Bernie Sanders of the right.  Both liberals and conservatives are tired of Washington’s bullshit of pandering to the rich, and elect someone who will stick it to The Man, which is why Trump can get away with anything as long as he looks like a Washington outsider making trouble for the insiders.  I have to give him a lot of credit for his campaign slogan of “drain the swamp,” which alone may have elected him president.

Washington’s elite (McConell) know Trump’s popularity will wane and all they need to do is play a waiting game of playing along until Trump self-destructs or the Democrats do the dirty work of impeachment and investigation, then it will be back to business as usual.  The Democrats have a rising-Trump problem on their hands, too, as the left pulls them further left by electing representatives who are tired of liberal lip service from the Democratic Party.

[ Edited: 16 February 2019 22:56 by Skipshot]
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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17 February 2019 01:09
 

I feel like these analyses are doomed to commit multiple fallacies but what can one do?

Many people I’ve spoken with reported that they voted for Trump of sheer frustration… almost as a retaliatory joke. Given the narrow margin of victory could this have tipped the scales? It wouldn’t shock me.

Other folks said that they knew he was a terrible leader but that they felt motivated to put him in office in order to destroy it. Like a suicide bombing.

If a pivotal proportion of voters hold sentiments like this what is the long term solution? Simply eliminating Trump doesn’t seem sufficient. We need something that restores solidarity and good faith with democracy as a concept.

I wish I knew.

 
EN
 
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EN
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17 February 2019 04:05
 
Twissel - 14 February 2019 10:15 PM

Trump isn’t cocky, he is getting high: his brain requires direct, positive feedback.
He will chance the dragon of getting more cheers from the crowd, even if that means he says stuff that will hurt him later - it’s all about getting his Fix.

Yes, the crowds stroke his ego, confirm to him his own importance and greatness, and reinforce his behavior.  He doesn’t really care about anyone or anything other than this.

 
LadyJane
 
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18 February 2019 05:57
 
Brick Bungalow - 17 February 2019 01:09 AM

Many people I’ve spoken with reported that they voted for Trump of sheer frustration… almost as a retaliatory joke. Given the narrow margin of victory could this have tipped the scales? It wouldn’t shock me.

Other folks said that they knew he was a terrible leader but that they felt motivated to put him in office in order to destroy it. Like a suicide bombing.

Are they having any regrets, that you’re aware of, or do you suppose they’ll vote for him again?

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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18 February 2019 10:29
 
LadyJane - 18 February 2019 05:57 AM
Brick Bungalow - 17 February 2019 01:09 AM

Many people I’ve spoken with reported that they voted for Trump of sheer frustration… almost as a retaliatory joke. Given the narrow margin of victory could this have tipped the scales? It wouldn’t shock me.

Other folks said that they knew he was a terrible leader but that they felt motivated to put him in office in order to destroy it. Like a suicide bombing.

Are they having any regrets, that you’re aware of, or do you suppose they’ll vote for him again?

His base appears unmovable.  His recent poll numbers have improved.  The base just wants him to say “fuck you”  to everyone else and do stuff.  It will be another close race unless something significant happens.

 
LadyJane
 
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18 February 2019 11:09
 
EN - 18 February 2019 10:29 AM
LadyJane - 18 February 2019 05:57 AM
Brick Bungalow - 17 February 2019 01:09 AM

Many people I’ve spoken with reported that they voted for Trump of sheer frustration… almost as a retaliatory joke. Given the narrow margin of victory could this have tipped the scales? It wouldn’t shock me.

Other folks said that they knew he was a terrible leader but that they felt motivated to put him in office in order to destroy it. Like a suicide bombing.

Are they having any regrets, that you’re aware of, or do you suppose they’ll vote for him again?

His base appears unmovable.  His recent poll numbers have improved.  The base just wants him to say “fuck you”  to everyone else and do stuff.  It will be another close race unless something significant happens.

I imagine the hardcore supporters aren’t likely to budge.  That’s why I’m wondering about anyone who may regret the reasoning behind their decision to vote for him in the first place.  After witnessing the past two years of his presidency. 

Like, fer instance, do you ever regret voting for him in the primary?

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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18 February 2019 11:33
 

Maybe I come from the lower-end of the working class than other patrons. All of this horror has bubbled to the surface after simmering for decades. I’ve been used to lunch with a group of workmates where Mr. Dean’s view dominated two to one. I’ve been laughed at for not knowing what a niglet was. Most of my employers and most of those I ever interviewed with were exactly like Trump.

Around here, small-business owners tend to be white, male and hard-core autocrats who believe that as long as the government is infested with liberals, there is no law they are bound to obey. They only hire women who are naive and vulnerable so they can then complain about the stupid gals in the office. Lads who also listen to right-wing radio are consider (and treated) as more intelligent.

Walling-off Mexico has been around since the eighties. Mexicans are why no one can have a raise or why we have to have a pay-cut. Mexicans are why we all need a lot of guns. However, there is little hesitation in going to Home Depot to hire a few or using that as a threat to put off anyone asking for more pay. They offer employee paid health insurance if at all (it is socialism). They lie their efin’ faces off and expect their authority over others to make it all unquestioned. Being a boss of your own business frees you from the constraints of truth. Power just tastes better.

They are social outcasts who, because of poor narrative skills and or training, cannot think things through but have realized that we have a tradition-fed system in place where they don’t have to.

It is a part of the Cult of Ronald Reagan. Not the real Reagan but the Imaginary Reagan that even Reagan did not live up to. He was a big political ink blot that could look just enough like Mr. Dean’s view or lots of hard right positions.

They say they will hold their noses as they vote for Bush, Romney and McCain as the lesser of two evils. America is a business that should be run by a businessman. All others have minds that are poisoned by do-gooders, softies and thieves. Like me. I would say, just before I was ‘let go’, that generational turnover was your doom and all us liberals had to do was wait for you to grow old and die. You cannot keep your numbers up because the population pool you draw from is receiving better narrative training, so fewer will be satisfied with your short-stack BS.

Trump is their role model. He is what they want to be. They carry on just like him. He vindicates them.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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18 February 2019 12:59
 

Socialism is a bad thing when it helps the poor and a good thing when it helps the rich, because the rich will give you a job if you lower their taxes and kiss their ass.  Fear, hate, and recrimination is the mantra of the Trumpanzees.  Dumb-ass feudalists.  If they think low taxes, lax regulations, and praise of the powerful and disregard for the rest of us is a good thing, then they would be happy in a lot of places which are usually called “developing nations.”

 
EN
 
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18 February 2019 14:38
 
LadyJane - 18 February 2019 11:09 AM

Like, fer instance, do you ever regret voting for him in the primary?

I was not the only one who did this.  You have to vote in the Republican Primary in this part of my state in order to have a say about local elections, which are decided in the Republican Primary.  My choices were Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.  I did NOT want Ted Cruz, and thought Trump would never win (silly me).  So I voted for him, then voted Dem in the general election.

It’s embarrassing when I think about it, but I knew my strategy.  Never thought it would turn out like this.

 
unsmoked
 
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19 February 2019 13:02
 
Skipshot - 18 February 2019 12:59 PM

Socialism is a bad thing when it helps the poor and a good thing when it helps the rich, because the rich will give you a job if you lower their taxes and kiss their ass.  Fear, hate, and recrimination is the mantra of the Trumpanzees.  Dumb-ass feudalists.  If they think low taxes, lax regulations, and praise of the powerful and disregard for the rest of us is a good thing, then they would be happy in a lot of places which are usually called “developing nations.”

Here are two articles that are oddly related:  One you may remember - Romney talking to his rich supporters about the 47% of Americans who paid no taxes, were free-loaders, and who would vote for Obama to continue getting their handouts -  https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser/

Then there’s this article:  https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/12/a-weakened-irs-is-a-corporations-best-friend/

“The gist of the story is that the IRS will have big problems figuring out the Republicans’ shiny new tax code while they’re already overwhelmed with routine work. But I suspect that’s a feature, not a bug. It means that not only do corporations get a big tax cut, but they can push the envelope of the new rules as hard as they want without much fear that the IRS can push back. Reducing audits on rich people is, generally, the reason for the continuing evisceration of the IRS, and this just fits the pattern.”

  (in this article see more on this from the Washington Post)