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The Stuff Kills

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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25 February 2019 09:09
 

as unsmoked said:

Put a high tax on products with sugar. Just as we do with tobacco and alcohol.

 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
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25 February 2019 10:55
 
icehorse - 25 February 2019 09:09 AM

as unsmoked said:

Put a high tax on products with sugar. Just as we do with tobacco and alcohol.

And high-fructose corn syrup. But the practicality of doing that would be daunting, not to mention the majority of Americans would likely oppose it.

 
Garret
 
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Garret
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25 February 2019 11:05
 

Maybe instead of taxing sugar (and high fructose corn syrup), we could start by ending subsidies for it?  It seems inefficient to be taxing AND subsidizing it at the same time.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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25 February 2019 11:43
 
Garret - 25 February 2019 11:05 AM

Maybe instead of taxing sugar (and high fructose corn syrup), we could start by ending subsidies for it?  It seems inefficient to be taxing AND subsidizing it at the same time.

excellent point.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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25 February 2019 12:10
 
proximacentauri - 25 February 2019 10:55 AM
icehorse - 25 February 2019 09:09 AM

as unsmoked said:

Put a high tax on products with sugar. Just as we do with tobacco and alcohol.

And high-fructose corn syrup. But the practicality of doing that would be daunting, not to mention the majority of Americans would likely oppose it.

Is the President obese?  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/does-the-pope-francis-think-donald-trump-needs-to-lose-weight-2017-05-24

Some Democrats are still floating the idea that they need someone like Oprah to run against Trump in 2020.  Since they both weigh about the same, during some of their televised debates they could be seated on opposite ends of a playground teeter-totter.  At other times they could debate while walking on a treadmill.  In their final debate, after each steps off the scales, they could simply arm wrestle.  A week before the election they could both appear on Jeopardy. 

Their wealth and tax returns would also be open to public scrutiny.  Sacks of gold representing their wealth would be weighed for comparison.  Isn’t this the direction our elections are going?  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oprah-boosted-weight-watchers-stake-now-richer-president-trump-164432737.html

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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25 February 2019 14:04
 

Sugar is like alcohol or cocaine - you can wean yourself from it, but it will always be a temptation.  You have to treat it like an addiction.  I have a sweet-tooth and I have to limit myself to maybe one dessert a month, or I start going back.  Chocolate or ice cream can become overwhelmingly attractive to me.  After Christmas I had to go on a keto diet for a while just to break the habit again. Now I’m in better control.  But that temptation is always there - I can hear the chocolate calling my name from about half the people’s desks in my office. It’s everywhere.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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25 February 2019 14:45
 
EN - 25 February 2019 02:04 PM

Sugar is like alcohol or cocaine - you can wean yourself from it, but it will always be a temptation.  You have to treat it like an addiction.  I have a sweet-tooth and I have to limit myself to maybe one dessert a month, or I start going back.  Chocolate or ice cream can become overwhelmingly attractive to me.  After Christmas I had to go on a keto diet for a while just to break the habit again. Now I’m in better control.  But that temptation is always there - I can hear the chocolate calling my name from about half the people’s desks in my office. It’s everywhere.

yup.

I eat dates, not quite sure how much that’s cheating.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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26 February 2019 11:33
 
icehorse - 25 February 2019 02:45 PM
EN - 25 February 2019 02:04 PM

Sugar is like alcohol or cocaine - you can wean yourself from it, but it will always be a temptation.  You have to treat it like an addiction.  I have a sweet-tooth and I have to limit myself to maybe one dessert a month, or I start going back.  Chocolate or ice cream can become overwhelmingly attractive to me.  After Christmas I had to go on a keto diet for a while just to break the habit again. Now I’m in better control.  But that temptation is always there - I can hear the chocolate calling my name from about half the people’s desks in my office. It’s everywhere.

yup.

I eat dates, not quite sure how much that’s cheating.

Dove Promises (dark chocolate & almond wrapped in foil with a fortune-cookie-style aphorism from someone in Abilene or the Bronx)  A teenage granddaughter left one on my desk after a visit and I was hooked.  3 with afternoon tea or coffee.  Totally under control.  I just unwrapped on to give you an idea what the aphorisms are like.  This is from Libby W. California  -  “Your vibe attracts your tribe.”

Now that it’s unwrapped . . .

 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
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26 February 2019 11:46
 
icehorse - 25 February 2019 02:45 PM
EN - 25 February 2019 02:04 PM

Sugar is like alcohol or cocaine - you can wean yourself from it, but it will always be a temptation.  You have to treat it like an addiction.  I have a sweet-tooth and I have to limit myself to maybe one dessert a month, or I start going back.  Chocolate or ice cream can become overwhelmingly attractive to me.  After Christmas I had to go on a keto diet for a while just to break the habit again. Now I’m in better control.  But that temptation is always there - I can hear the chocolate calling my name from about half the people’s desks in my office. It’s everywhere.

yup.

I eat dates, not quite sure how much that’s cheating.

Coincidentally, I just bought a 2lb bag of dried dates from costco that’s recently become my go to snack. But I find them to be so delicious and irresistible that I’m already eating way too many of them throughout the day. Like EN, I have a strong addiction to sugar. I blame it on my childhood. In the 60’s I probably consumed enough kool-aid and chocolate milk to kill several small horses. 

 

 
Skipshot
 
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01 March 2019 21:06
 
burt - 23 February 2019 02:23 PM

Sugar is a case of something far more general. There is an attraction to sugar because in our evolutionary past having a sweet-tooth served to indicate nutritious food. This is because things like berries or some fruits that tasted sweet also contained lots of other things contributing to nutrition. What happened, however, with sugar, is that the sweetening element has been abstracted from this nutritional matrix and now is added to many not very nutritious manufactured food items in order to make them attractive to people. The same sort of process is used with many other things beyond food. One can argue that an unregulated efficient market will always produce this sort of result. GAD has an overly optimistic view of human choice capacity: some addictions cannot, for most people, be abandoned through choice.

I’ve heard this explanation before, and it makes sense to me, although difficult to prove.

I would like to add that our bodies do not have an Off switch, or Full switch, for sugar.  The thinking is that sugar in the wild is rare and brief, so that in order to fatten up and take advantage of a naturally short window of sugar opportunity, our bodies do not register sugar as filling us up.  With modern day access to sugar in unlimited supply we eat far more sugar than intended.  The only way our bodies tell us we have eaten too much sugar is when we feel sick from it; just ask any kid who has O.D.-ed on Halloween candy.

We evolved to have a sweet-tooth for good reason, but refinement of sugar has concentrated it in amounts far more than evolution intended.

I learned to treat sugar like poison and cut it out of my diet as much as possible, and my body’s response was relief, and keeping weight off is much easier.  I also upped my intake of tap water, which is like giving my insides a refreshing rinse, and my thinking is also clearer.  More water and less sugar means I feel much better.

 
Poldano
 
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Poldano
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12 March 2019 01:47
 

GAD’s proposal is probably a troll, but just in case it isn’t, there are some metabolic disorders that evidently cause obesity. Hypothyroidism easily comes to mind.

As for taxing the results of sugar addiction, the same principle should be applied to the results of all addictions, to be fair. Don’t tax alcohol or opiates, tax rehabilitation treatment and hospital emergency rooms. Don’t tax gambling, tax debt. Don’t tax internet use, tax only those who cannot avoid internet use. Don’t tax teddy bears, tax only those who cannot avoid teddy bears. Don’t tax motorcycle riders, tax treatment for traumatic head injuries. Etc., etc.

By the way, Gary Taubes is not the first person to attempt to expose the sugar problem, the U.S. is not the only country to have the problem with the political connections of sugar-related industries, and neither saturated fat nor dietary cholesterol by themselves have a demonstrated effect on heart health. John Yudkin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly) published research showing the ill effects of refined sugar in the 1970’s. His work was overwhelmed and submerged by politically-connected opposition, together with the opposition of a very politically adept and rancorously vociferous nutritionist, Ancel Keys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys), who evidently staked his reputation on the ill health effects of saturated fat.

[ Edited: 12 March 2019 02:02 by Poldano]
 
 
Garret
 
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Garret
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12 March 2019 07:04
 

GAD’s proposal is just bad and poorly thought out.

If we don’t cover medical conditions for which people have a share of “responsibility”, it opens a can of worms that just doesn’t end.  If you sprain your ankle playing basketball, you are culpable for your injury therefore it shouldn’t be covered.  If you get skin cancer and didn’t religiously use sun block, you are responsible for your skin cancer.  If your kid gets leukemia, you should have known the risks of your child having the disease, and you chose to have the child in the first place.

It’s a proposal of trying to determine who is worthy, and once we start doing that, I bet nearly all of us are going to lose out to someone, unless we allow for special pleading on why certain groups are worthy.

There are so many ways to reduce health care costs without setting up a system of assigning moral worth to individuals, that we should probably try those first.  For example, we could crack down on price fixing by pharmaceutical companies, or change the laws surrounding patents (right now a company only needs to CHANGE a drug to renew the patent… they don’t have to improve it, just CHANGE it).

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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12 March 2019 07:59
 
Poldano - 12 March 2019 01:47 AM

GAD’s proposal is probably a troll, but just in case it isn’t, there are some metabolic disorders that evidently cause obesity. Hypothyroidism easily comes to mind.

As for taxing the results of sugar addiction, the same principle should be applied to the results of all addictions, to be fair. Don’t tax alcohol or opiates, tax rehabilitation treatment and hospital emergency rooms. Don’t tax gambling, tax debt. Don’t tax internet use, tax only those who cannot avoid internet use. Don’t tax teddy bears, tax only those who cannot avoid teddy bears. Don’t tax motorcycle riders, tax treatment for traumatic head injuries. Etc., etc.

By the way, Gary Taubes is not the first person to attempt to expose the sugar problem, the U.S. is not the only country to have the problem with the political connections of sugar-related industries, and neither saturated fat nor dietary cholesterol by themselves have a demonstrated effect on heart health. John Yudkin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly) published research showing the ill effects of refined sugar in the 1970’s. His work was overwhelmed and submerged by politically-connected opposition, together with the opposition of a very politically adept and rancorously vociferous nutritionist, Ancel Keys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys), who evidently staked his reputation on the ill health effects of saturated fat.

Obesity is caused by eating more calories then you need, it really is that simple, eat less then you need and you lose weight, no magic, no bullshit. But if someone has a medical condition that can be excepted.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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12 March 2019 14:12
 
GAD - 12 March 2019 07:59 AM

Obesity is caused by eating more calories then you need, it really is that simple, eat less then you need and you lose weight, no magic, no bullshit. But if someone has a medical condition that can be excepted.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-causes-of-weight-gain

4. Aggressive Marketing

Junk food producers are very aggressive marketers.

Their tactics can get unethical at times and they sometimes try to market very unhealthy products as healthy foods.

These companies also make misleading claims. What’s worse, they target their marketing specifically towards children.

In today’s world, children are becoming obese, diabetic and addicted to junk foods long before they’re old enough to make informed decisions about these things.

See other causes in article. 

Recently I watched a reenactment of the Civil War battle at Shiloh Church.  It was very well done - but in the withering fire I was struck by how ‘hefty’ many of the soldiers were . . .  2019 Civil War buffs, our neighbors, not 1862 volunteers and recruits.

 

 

[ Edited: 12 March 2019 14:16 by unsmoked]
 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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12 March 2019 17:44
 
unsmoked - 12 March 2019 02:12 PM
GAD - 12 March 2019 07:59 AM

Obesity is caused by eating more calories then you need, it really is that simple, eat less then you need and you lose weight, no magic, no bullshit. But if someone has a medical condition that can be excepted.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-causes-of-weight-gain

4. Aggressive Marketing

Junk food producers are very aggressive marketers.

Their tactics can get unethical at times and they sometimes try to market very unhealthy products as healthy foods.

These companies also make misleading claims. What’s worse, they target their marketing specifically towards children.

In today’s world, children are becoming obese, diabetic and addicted to junk foods long before they’re old enough to make informed decisions about these things.

See other causes in article. 

Recently I watched a reenactment of the Civil War battle at Shiloh Church.  It was very well done - but in the withering fire I was struck by how ‘hefty’ many of the soldiers were . . .  2019 Civil War buffs, our neighbors, not 1862 volunteers and recruits.

 

 

That is just excuses, they can’t overcome the laws of physics, you can’t store more calories then you consume. I can guarantee you that if you eat less calories then you use you WILL lose weight, period.

 
 
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