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Unwitting Propaganda and Islam vs. Human Rights

 
burt
 
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burt
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04 June 2019 10:27
 

Here is a worthwhile article, in particular regarding change in Islam, both in the past and today.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/opinion/arabic-numerals.html

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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04 June 2019 13:43
 

I thought the last paragraph was worth calling out:

Here is a more realistic explanation: The early Islamic civilization was creative because it was open-minded. At least some Muslims had the urge to learn from other civilizations. There was some room for free speech, which was extraordinary for its time. That allowed the work of towering Greek philosophers such as Aristotle to be translated and discussed, theologians of different stripes to speak their minds, and scholars to find independent patronage. From the 12th century onward, however, a more uniform and less rational form of Islam was imposed by despotic caliphs and sultans. So Muslim thought turned insular, repetitive and incurious.

 
 
burt
 
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burt
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04 June 2019 17:15
 
icehorse - 04 June 2019 01:43 PM

I thought the last paragraph was worth calling out:

Here is a more realistic explanation: The early Islamic civilization was creative because it was open-minded. At least some Muslims had the urge to learn from other civilizations. There was some room for free speech, which was extraordinary for its time. That allowed the work of towering Greek philosophers such as Aristotle to be translated and discussed, theologians of different stripes to speak their minds, and scholars to find independent patronage. From the 12th century onward, however, a more uniform and less rational form of Islam was imposed by despotic caliphs and sultans. So Muslim thought turned insular, repetitive and incurious.

And that was when the civilization went into decline (the Ottoman Empire was Muslim, but it was mainly the Turks). The insular turn coincided with the Crusades, and the Mongols, outside threats.

 
burt
 
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burt
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04 June 2019 17:16
 
icehorse - 04 June 2019 01:43 PM

I thought the last paragraph was worth calling out:

Here is a more realistic explanation: The early Islamic civilization was creative because it was open-minded. At least some Muslims had the urge to learn from other civilizations. There was some room for free speech, which was extraordinary for its time. That allowed the work of towering Greek philosophers such as Aristotle to be translated and discussed, theologians of different stripes to speak their minds, and scholars to find independent patronage. From the 12th century onward, however, a more uniform and less rational form of Islam was imposed by despotic caliphs and sultans. So Muslim thought turned insular, repetitive and incurious.

And that was when the civilization went into decline (the Ottoman Empire was Muslim, but it was mainly the Turks). The insular turn coincided with the Crusades, and the Mongols, outside threats. The Ottomans were something like Byzantium was for Rome, started off on a high but then became stagnant.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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04 June 2019 18:30
 

burt:

The insular turn coincided with the Crusades, and the Mongols, outside threats

Are you suspecting that it’s not just coincidence?

My understanding is that in the early days of Islam, when a lot of conquest was happening, Muslim conquerers were very open to stealing what was the intellectual property of the day. (Of course the same can probably be said of Christian conquerers.)

 
 
burt
 
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burt
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04 June 2019 19:46
 
icehorse - 04 June 2019 06:30 PM

burt:

The insular turn coincided with the Crusades, and the Mongols, outside threats

Are you suspecting that it’s not just coincidence?

My understanding is that in the early days of Islam, when a lot of conquest was happening, Muslim conquerers were very open to stealing what was the intellectual property of the day. (Of course the same can probably be said of Christian conquerers.)

No such thing as intellectual property then. Everybody took everything, if they were particularly nice they gave credit. The only defense was if the material was well enough known. At least early on, Muslims were encouraged to become educated.

 
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