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A Hateful Thread

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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11 April 2019 13:41
 

The same goes for any cauldron of cosmic love and universal kum-bye-ya-ness. No such thing. Am I the most despicable poster yet?

Anyone else care to admit that they contain a wellspring of hate just waiting for some reasoning to unleash it?

Why would anyone enjoy watching folks slaughter each other? I do hate these new tax forms.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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11 April 2019 16:11
 

Hate is unhealthy. Folks on PBS say so. We need protection, a social safety net, from the devastating effects of sudden major hatred. Luckily, we are talking more about the increasing cost of hate to the nation as a whole.

Since the Affordable Hate Act went into effect, low-cost contempt has been available to more taxpayers. There is a plan for everyone in the Marketplace of Hate and there is open enrollment all year round. There is limited choice and we can’t always keep our familiar hate groups. I had to choose from the Hate Exchange. Now that it is tax-time, I have to crunch the numbers for hate-year 2018.

I could itemize each hateful utterance or use the standard hate-tax based on family size and internet speed (Alaska and Hawaii use Table B). I can offset that but I will have to itemize if I want to claim the deduction for self-loathing. I don’t know how folks prove their exemptions. I claimed that 21 people hate me. I am pretty sure but I don’t want an audit.

We bought the Bronze Plan where we pay 80% of anything less than vitriol. It offers full Catastrophic Character Coverage but there’s that damn exclusion for pre-existing grudges. Thankfully, I won’t need to pay back the premium subsidies.

I did the worksheet for Earned Reviled Credit but once you check the box for ‘non-non-white’, you’re disqualified. It says your credit was ‘pre-paid’ and instructs you to fill out the form ‘Personal Retribution Responsibility’. I’m skipping this part while it’s still elective.


Science may one day define hatred as an emotional dependence or addiction to anger.

If we can take down a pharmaceutical company for the ‘opioid crisis’, can we take down a media company for a ‘hate crisis’?

[ Edited: 11 April 2019 16:14 by Nhoj Morley]
 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
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12 April 2019 07:43
 

The point is, Nhoj, that hate, for lack of a better word, is good. Hate is right. Hate works. Hate clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the right wing spirit. Hate, in all of its forms, hate for liberals, for immigrants, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of Trumpism and hate, you mark my words, will not only save Fox News, but will save white America.

And greed, let’s not forget greed.

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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12 April 2019 08:28
 
proximacentauri - 12 April 2019 07:43 AM

The point is, Nhoj, that hate, for lack of a better word, is good. Hate is right. Hate works. Hate clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the right wing spirit. Hate, in all of its forms, hate for liberals, for immigrants, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of Trumpism and hate, you mark my words, will not only save Fox News, but will save white America.

And greed, let’s not forget greed.

And the opposite of hate is love, but in order to resist and fight truly hateful philosophies, this love cannot be of the wishy-washy type.  It must be fueled by hate of deceit, injustice and the role played by demagogues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM4Cb2OqY8k

 

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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12 April 2019 13:19
 

Hate is a ghostly quality. It is a stance or position. It is not, in and of itself, an emotion. It is an explanation for other emotions.

Can anyone offer a good definition of hate or any example of hate elsewhere in the animal kingdom?

 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
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13 April 2019 09:36
 
Jan_CAN - 12 April 2019 08:28 AM
proximacentauri - 12 April 2019 07:43 AM

The point is, Nhoj, that hate, for lack of a better word, is good. Hate is right. Hate works. Hate clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the right wing spirit. Hate, in all of its forms, hate for liberals, for immigrants, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of Trumpism and hate, you mark my words, will not only save Fox News, but will save white America.

And greed, let’s not forget greed.

And the opposite of hate is love, but in order to resist and fight truly hateful philosophies, this love cannot be of the wishy-washy type.  It must be fueled by hate of deceit, injustice and the role played by demagogues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM4Cb2OqY8k

Sound philosophy, gotta love Star Trek

 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
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13 April 2019 10:00
 
Nhoj Morley - 12 April 2019 01:19 PM

Hate is a ghostly quality. It is a stance or position. It is not, in and of itself, an emotion. It is an explanation for other emotions.

Can anyone offer a good definition of hate or any example of hate elsewhere in the animal kingdom?

It seems only we big brained bipedal hominids are capable of hate. I wonder if hate emerged with tribalism.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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13 April 2019 11:47
 

The opposite of hate isn’t love, it’s indifference.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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16 April 2019 23:37
 

Maybe I have been following this forum too long and I’ve lost my way.

If one cannot believe in evil, how can one believe in hate?

Haters can always claim only feelings of fear and anger driving their opinions and usually report no sensation that they would call hate.

If hate is a feeling at all, it is on the receiving side.

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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17 April 2019 07:03
 
Nhoj Morley - 16 April 2019 11:37 PM

Maybe I have been following this forum too long and I’ve lost my way.

If one cannot believe in evil, how can one believe in hate?

Haters can always claim only feelings of fear and anger driving their opinions and usually report no sensation that they would call hate.

If hate is a feeling at all, it is on the receiving side.

“Hate” is another example of an abstract word failing under the weight of sensible analysis. Yet, as it pertains to the hater as opposed to the “hatee,” the word seems to contain some bit of true human function. Again, I doubt you’re one of them, but I’d say that haters are alive and well. Or at least alive.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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17 April 2019 08:52
 

There’s no way to remain objective about tornadoes when you’re at the centre of the storm.  And there’s no way to objectively analyse a group of people you immerse yourself in while keeping others out.  Especially at this forum.  The perception is that the people who post the most are the most widely accepted.  They are the regulars for no other reason than frequent posting creating the image of a community.  Even though they know very little about each other. 

They see what they want to see.  And what they don’t understand they project.  Individually filling in blanks along the way and following the assumptions perpetuated by the group.  As much as it takes for perception to become reality.  It’s a remarkable phenomenon.  Not that they’re doing what they’re doing.  That they remain unaware that they are doing what they’re doing.

When we fail to challenge what we see it allows our hasty assumptions to take hold creating an imprint that can be difficult to revise.  We trace and retrace until the spaces are filled to our satisfaction.  The longer it lingers the more inaccurate in our recollections.  And the more stitched into the fabrication the farther we get from the truth.

Haters don’t think their feelings are driven by fear and anger.  Those feelings just seem normal.  Those feelings are justified.  Those feelings feel right.  We project fear and anger onto them, from the outside, in order to rationalize their behaviour.  I think the concepts of fear and anger can be reduced as much as the notion of evil.  But wouldn’t we just be kidding ourselves? 

Pay close attention to the casual intermittent poster.  Notice the thoughtful tone and pacing.  A luxury only afforded to those whose name doesn’t yet conjure positive or negative feelings from the regulars looking on.  All too eager to attribute one or the other taking the fastest route possible.  A forum full of followers fighting for the lead.  It’s clear enough to those of us on the receiving end of hate.  With no illusions about what happens when cloud bunnies turn into funnels.

 
 
brazen4
 
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brazen4
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18 April 2019 10:50
 

What a great thread, and many thanks to all contributors. My own thinking and ability to self- assess is often enhanced by this forum. A question came to mind while reading this thread regarding the practice of shunning used by some religious grps and how that may be an attempt to “civilize” hating so that it doesn’t get violent. Our current situation (trump, with all his despicable tendencies, being president) looks like one in which we can’t shun him out of office, violence is out of the question, and there seems to be nothing left to do but watch this slow motion train wreck. Long distance plans for the continued improvement of conditions for all citizens has been put on hold and it’s damn frustrating. I’ve heard it said that “it is good to make plans, just don’t plan the outcome”. Easier said than done. Personally, when I begin to get existentially frustrated, my only short term solution is to do some work with my hands and around my house and property there is no shortage of projects that fit that bill. I reserve the word “hate” for true human monsters. Trump?, I just can’t stand him with all the wreckage he will leave in his wake.

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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19 April 2019 02:01
 

The notion that we can have a ‘civilized’ hate should be a total giveaway. But it is true for my werkmates. We are efin’ trumpies and efin’ liberals carrying on politely and avoiding the subject. Actually, we avoid 90% of the subjects known to mankind just to avoid the disagreeable shouting. Our political hatreds are civilized because they must be.

The word does have a ‘true human function’. That is, it still has one. Can we put it behind us?

Here’s my problem with it. When we talk about ourselves, it is easy to consider hate as a sort of conclusion or position involving emotions but not as an emotion itself. One may be angry about how things are going and fear the consequences of choices made by others or just reason out why something is a bad idea. There may be frustration in expressing useful opposition. Does this warrant hate’s full dictionary definition? To despise and have no positive feeling for at all? Mostly no. We mitigate the word for ourselves. That’s fine. Why don’t we, on the whole, mitigate it for others as well?

I hate asparagus. The taste or smell of it makes me barf in seconds. We are chemically incompatible. No, I don’t actually hate asparagus, we’re just chemically incompatible. It’s not a problem. I can avoid the stuff. My real problem is wondering if I have decoupled myself from all mankind.

We say that we must accept the facts as they present themselves even if they overrule our emotional investments and favored ideas. We must have the courage to draw new conclusions free of our investments if they are not sustainable in the face of the facts. I consider myself on the team that holds that standard.

Holding crazy beliefs can cause otherwise benign folks to do crazy things powered by emotions triggered by the crazy beliefs. That is Atheism 101. Why would anyone hold a crazy belief? Because it satisfies an emotional need of some kind? There are more elaborate and nuanced views but I find the whole collection of them unsustainable. They require an invention or exaggeration of human emotions that caters to being able to support a belief system. This can, in the words of some (mostly beyond the forum) involve large cauldrons of seething primal feelings in combat with a posited universal force of love and goodness. The dark and the light.

In my view, anyone who holds to that might as well go back to church or to a Star Wars movie. Even without imagining a grand battle between good and evil, any understanding of human emotion has to be stretched into a plausible fall guy for belief systems. I can understand that there is apparently nothing else to blame but I say those cauldrons are as shallow as baking trays and, as a power source for ideals, emotions are low voltage.

We all reason and there is a common procedure of reason that we can share conversationally. Our differences do not come from how we reason but rather why we stop reasoning. As in, how do you know when you’re done? That’s different for different folks. It is how one can be very clever while also very simplistic. Or how one can be a doofus while also being hard to keep up with. This capacity is the best predictor of one’s political views.

It is the manner in which we operate our brains that divides us. We look at each other and see a picture that is impossible for the other to see. We look crazy to each other. Progressives aspire to a society of self-autonomy where every citizen creates their own story. Trumpies look at that society with dread knowing that it will “walk all over them” (a genuine trumpie quote).

I don’t blame anyone’s emotions anymore. I just listen to them and count. That is where the real chase is. When we think, we (our brains) first control the way we present our thoughts and that can play our emotions and those of others like a pack of cards. I would not suggest that there aren’t plenty of dangerous politically driven psycho-nutjobs about but there is a good reason why they should not be the standard emotional model of any ideology. Followers are attracted by the right count first before any emotional resonance or investment. “I like this ideology because it stops reasoning at just the point I like to stop, too.”  If there is a villain in our combat, it is the count.

After thinking about what nv said, I must concede he is spot on. I no longer feel hate in the way I once did and I do not feel hated in the manner I did before. Maybe I should start mumbling like David Carradine in Kung Fu. I can still use the vernacular. I still hate asparagus.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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19 April 2019 07:49
 

Regarding this forum community, I hold the dubious distinction of being the “postess with the mostes” .  I’ve had the privilege of meeting about 12-15 members over the past 12 years, and I can say that I’ve liked them all.  Haven’t fully agreed with any of them, but I don’t fully agree with anyone, not even myself.  Hatred is very difficult when you are having a beer or vodka with someone, and just talking about life experiences.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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19 April 2019 09:14
 

The problem is less about hating each other and more about hating the truth.  That’s the tug of war that cripples progress for everyone.  Whether deluded by the notion that quantity outweighs quality or appreciating the irony of having an aversion to asparagus while in a vegetative state.  It can be difficult to remain objective when there’s a steady stream of smoke blowing up yer arse and dangling carrots obstructing the view.  You have to consider the source.  And whether it’s a source you’re willing to trust.  You can’t succumb to pressure when you haven’t any peers.  And you can’t be a team player in a pool of solo swimmers.  Imagine this community in the absence of any gates.  At least unhinge it for the next guy even without the face to face.  I’ll continue fighting for the fringe from the fringe.  Gloriously unburdened by feelings of overwhelming hate.  It’s fascinating enough watching my posts inspire it for no apparent reason.  I guess Trioonity can blind you to as much as it reveals.

 
 
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