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Would intelligent people put themselves in a position where they had to follow stupid orders?

 
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EN
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10 April 2019 12:44
 
Jan_CAN - 10 April 2019 10:26 AM
EN - 10 April 2019 10:01 AM
Jan_CAN - 10 April 2019 09:40 AM

If the case in point were that Commander-in-Chief Trump were to give an illegal/immoral order, might it not be the generals, who one could assume/hope are somewhat intelligent and informed, that would make the decision to disregard or disobey and order his/her troops to stand down, i.e. it wouldn’t be up to each soldier in the chain of command to decide?

The generals would be in the best position to decide.  The farther down the chain it goes, the less likely it is that the order would be disobeyed, I suspect.

Wouldn’t soldiers be most likely to obey the orders of the next in command immediately above them, all the way up the chain?  Isn’t that what they are trained to do?

Yes.  But a general could have more freedom and discretion if the president, for example, ordered a nuclear attack on France. They have enough seniority to just say “no”.

 

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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11 April 2019 10:48
 
Jan_CAN - 10 April 2019 11:57 AM
unsmoked - 10 April 2019 11:34 AM
Jan_CAN - 10 April 2019 10:26 AM
EN - 10 April 2019 10:01 AM
Jan_CAN - 10 April 2019 09:40 AM

If the case in point were that Commander-in-Chief Trump were to give an illegal/immoral order, might it not be the generals, who one could assume/hope are somewhat intelligent and informed, that would make the decision to disregard or disobey and order his/her troops to stand down, i.e. it wouldn’t be up to each soldier in the chain of command to decide?

The generals would be in the best position to decide.  The farther down the chain it goes, the less likely it is that the order would be disobeyed, I suspect.

Wouldn’t soldiers be most likely to obey the orders of the next in command immediately above them, all the way up the chain?  Isn’t that what they are trained to do?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-forgotten-history-of-fragging-in-vietnam_b_5a1b77b6e4b0cee6c050939d

“The term “fragging” was derived from the fact that a fragmentation grenade was rolled into the area where an officer or NCO was sleeping. When it exploded, no fingerprints could be found. The target was often a leader who was hated because he was incompetent in leading men, or excessively harsh in his discipline, or overly aggressive in waging war (putting the lives of soldiers and Marines at unnecessary risk just so that he could gain glory and advance his own career).”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmDA60X-f_A  (movie trailer - Paths of Glory)

There are of course many examples of soldiers disobeying orders that they should have followed, and of soldiers obeying orders that should not have been obeyed.  And in your example, of soldiers driven to take terrible actions.

I’m just hoping that, due to the incompetence, unpredictability and the particularly questionable morality of the current Commander-in-Chief, certain saner minds in the military might hinder actions that could be even more harmful or dangerous than some that have been taken in the past.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/04/17-issues-that-donald-trump-knows-better-than-anyone-else-according-to-donald-trump/?noredirect=on&utm;_term=.78297d4811fa

We know that Trump knows more about tax evasion than anyone else, but just to remind ourselves - in this article, scroll down numbers 15, 16, 17, and 18.

15) The military

“There’s nobody bigger or better at the military than I am.” — June 2015 Fox News interview

16) ISIS

“I know more about ISIS [the Islamic State militant group] than the generals do. Believe me.” — November 2015

17) Defense — and offense

“So a general gets on, sent obviously by Obama, and he said, ‘Mr. Trump doesn’t understand. He knows nothing about defense.’ I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand, believe me. Believe me. Than they will ever understand. Than they will ever understand.” — July 2016

18) The ‘horror of nuclear’

“There is nobody who understands the horror of nuclear more than me.”—June 2016

 

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Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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11 April 2019 17:43
 

Not with any abundant intention. However most people simply don’t have the resources to pick their starting pace. Most people will not have the kind of luck it requires to opt out of this circumstance.

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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12 April 2019 10:39
 
Brick Bungalow - 11 April 2019 05:43 PM

Not with any abundant intention. However most people simply don’t have the resources to pick their starting pace. Most people will not have the kind of luck it requires to opt out of this circumstance.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by the kind of luck needed to opt out of this circumstance?  By ‘resources’ do you mean wealth?

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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16 April 2019 01:36
 
unsmoked - 12 April 2019 10:39 AM
Brick Bungalow - 11 April 2019 05:43 PM

Not with any abundant intention. However most people simply don’t have the resources to pick their starting pace. Most people will not have the kind of luck it requires to opt out of this circumstance.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by the kind of luck needed to opt out of this circumstance?  By ‘resources’ do you mean wealth?

I just mean that a majority of persons in any society are essentially subservient. That’s how human culture seems to be arranged. To attain even some modest degree of material prosperity it seems necessary to sign off on a number of social contracts and perform labors on behalf of people in leadership positions. A lot of this is arranged for us well before we have any autonomy at all so that by the time we are empowered to make choices on our behalf we are already on the books of people who own most of our habitat. Even people with wealth and power are as bound by those things as they are liberated… or so it seems to me.

 
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