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Reflections on the end of life and anticipated end

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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29 May 2019 20:20
 
Dennis Campbell - 29 May 2019 05:49 PM
EN - 29 May 2019 05:47 PM

A new dog and a road trip should help.

Considering both

Head to vegas and put $100 on black.
Or red, if you prefer.  Adopt a dog on the way home.
Spoil the both of you for a few months.
Focus on the “I’m glad I dids” for a bit.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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30 May 2019 10:00
 

Find a fun project, plot and scheme until you fail or succeed. Make sure it’s something you really want. Tap into some of that golden old-age indifference and make some trouble in the process.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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30 May 2019 10:36
 
Jb8989 - 30 May 2019 10:00 AM

Find a fun project, plot and scheme until you fail or succeed. Make sure it’s something you really want. Tap into some of that golden old-age indifference and make some trouble in the process.

I’d never make trouble as I’m too nice a person.  Only if someone deserves it of course.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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30 May 2019 10:44
 
Dennis Campbell - 30 May 2019 10:36 AM
Jb8989 - 30 May 2019 10:00 AM

Find a fun project, plot and scheme until you fail or succeed. Make sure it’s something you really want. Tap into some of that golden old-age indifference and make some trouble in the process.

I’d never make trouble as I’m too nice a person.  Only if someone deserves it of course.

LOL…Is you new place walking distance to anything interesting?

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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30 May 2019 11:44
 
Jb8989 - 30 May 2019 10:44 AM
Dennis Campbell - 30 May 2019 10:36 AM
Jb8989 - 30 May 2019 10:00 AM

Find a fun project, plot and scheme until you fail or succeed. Make sure it’s something you really want. Tap into some of that golden old-age indifference and make some trouble in the process.

I’d never make trouble as I’m too nice a person.  Only if someone deserves it of course.

LOL…Is you new place walking distance to anything interesting?

Not really everything like food shopping is only a few blocks away. Still have a car.  Might drive down into Illinois a week from Friday to look at a dog.

Dennis

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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30 May 2019 12:17
 
Brick Bungalow - 28 May 2019 07:45 PM

I think its a good thing to reflect upon. Facing death squarely is one of the essential ways that we find our true convictions and true character. I appreciate what you say about depression. I have nothing to say about depressive disorders but I do think there is value in accepting that human experience has a natural spectrum. Our peaks are defined by our valleys.

I’m interested in your reflections if you care to share. When you consider mortality as a predicament do you have an experience of injustice? Does it seem wrong to you that we must die and experience the loss of those we love? I feel this way even if I can’t really defend the logic of it. If so is there is a spectrum? Is the loss of a younger person a greater injustice than the loss of an older person? Not on an analytical level but simply in terms of how the experience is processed. For myself there hasn’t been much consistency with how I process loss. Sometimes its blunt and sudden and unbearable. Sometimes it’s melancholy. Sometimes I have felt relief at the passing of another person and subsequent guilt for that relief. The differences seem random. Sometimes I feel very little grief and I have no idea why. I was close to the person and I miss them but that emotion is just absent.

I’d welcome reflections from anyone. I think it’s an important thing to discuss.

There’s a story about a Zen monk who lived in a village with his mother.  The old lady wasn’t a Buddhist.  She occasionally wanted meat in her diet, so her son went to the butcher’s and bought what she asked for.  On his way home, whatever wayside plants were in bloom, he’d pick a fresh bunch for his mother’s bedside vase.  At home he’d carefully prepare the meal as she liked it.  The villagers were critical, gossiping about how he violated his Buddhist vows not to kill other beings.

In late autumn the monk was called away for a month to substitute for his old teacher in a distant prefecture.  Returning home he found that his mother had died in a cold house two days before.  He went to the shrine where people were gathered around the coffin, weeping and wailing.  They made way for him, expecting a long, grief-stricken eulogy.  The monk stood quietly by the coffin for a few minutes then banged on it three times with his staff .  He turned to the mourners and said, “Funeral’s over.  Bury the body.”

 

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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30 May 2019 12:52
 
unsmoked - 30 May 2019 12:17 PM
Brick Bungalow - 28 May 2019 07:45 PM

I think its a good thing to reflect upon. Facing death squarely is one of the essential ways that we find our true convictions and true character. I appreciate what you say about depression. I have nothing to say about depressive disorders but I do think there is value in accepting that human experience has a natural spectrum. Our peaks are defined by our valleys.

I’m interested in your reflections if you care to share. When you consider mortality as a predicament do you have an experience of injustice? Does it seem wrong to you that we must die and experience the loss of those we love? I feel this way even if I can’t really defend the logic of it. If so is there is a spectrum? Is the loss of a younger person a greater injustice than the loss of an older person? Not on an analytical level but simply in terms of how the experience is processed. For myself there hasn’t been much consistency with how I process loss. Sometimes its blunt and sudden and unbearable. Sometimes it’s melancholy. Sometimes I have felt relief at the passing of another person and subsequent guilt for that relief. The differences seem random. Sometimes I feel very little grief and I have no idea why. I was close to the person and I miss them but that emotion is just absent.

I’d welcome reflections from anyone. I think it’s an important thing to discuss.

There’s a story about a Zen monk who lived in a village with his mother.  The old lady wasn’t a Buddhist.  She occasionally wanted meat in her diet, so her son went to the butcher’s and bought what she asked for.  On his way home, whatever wayside plants were in bloom, he’d pick a fresh bunch for his mother’s bedside vase.  At home he’d carefully prepare the meal as she liked it.  The villagers were critical, gossiping about how he violated his Buddhist vows not to kill other beings.

In late autumn the monk was called away for a month to substitute for his old teacher in a distant prefecture.  Returning home he found that his mother had died in a cold house two days before.  He went to the shrine where people were gathered around the coffin, weeping and wailing.  They made way for him, expecting a long, grief-stricken eulogy.  The monk stood quietly by the coffin for a few minutes then banged on it three times with his staff .  He turned to the mourners and said, “Funeral’s over.  Bury the body.”

 

If she’d been eating with proper morality, she’d no doubt still be well.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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30 May 2019 12:55
 
unsmoked - 30 May 2019 12:17 PM
Brick Bungalow - 28 May 2019 07:45 PM

 

In late autumn the monk was called away for a month to substitute for his old teacher in a distant prefecture.  Returning home he found that his mother had died in a cold house two days before.  He went to the shrine where people were gathered around the coffin, weeping and wailing.  They made way for him, expecting a long, grief-stricken eulogy.  The monk stood quietly by the coffin for a few minutes then banged on it three times with his staff .  He turned to the mourners and said, “Funeral’s over.  Bury the body.”

[/

Agree. At least I did not have to deal with religious rites when my wife died. She was cremated and we all met a week or so later to honor her life not death.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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30 May 2019 18:31
 
Dennis Campbell - 29 May 2019 06:53 AM

Get another dog.

Trying to do that.  Seems with rescue organizations you have to prove you’re a suitable adoptive parent. Bit of a pain. Ironically can buy from a breeder with no questions asked.

I love dogs, and cats, and horses. We’ve got ‘em all.

We ALSO have a Pacific parrotlet. He weighs a whopping 30 grams. We’ve had him for 5 years and he astounds me every friggin day. Might be worth looking into a parrotlet!

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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30 May 2019 18:43
 
icehorse - 30 May 2019 06:31 PM
Dennis Campbell - 29 May 2019 06:53 AM

Get another dog.

Trying to do that.  Seems with rescue organizations you have to prove you’re a suitable adoptive parent. Bit of a pain. Ironically can buy from a breeder with no questions asked.

I love dogs, and cats, and horses. We’ve got ‘em all.

We ALSO have a Pacific parrotlet. He weighs a whopping 30 grams. We’ve had him for 5 years and he astounds me every friggin day. Might be worth looking into a parrotlet!

Birds don’t snuggle all that well in bed!

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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30 May 2019 19:30
 
Dennis Campbell - 30 May 2019 06:43 PM
icehorse - 30 May 2019 06:31 PM
Dennis Campbell - 29 May 2019 06:53 AM

Get another dog.

Trying to do that.  Seems with rescue organizations you have to prove you’re a suitable adoptive parent. Bit of a pain. Ironically can buy from a breeder with no questions asked.

I love dogs, and cats, and horses. We’ve got ‘em all.

We ALSO have a Pacific parrotlet. He weighs a whopping 30 grams. We’ve had him for 5 years and he astounds me every friggin day. Might be worth looking into a parrotlet!

Birds don’t snuggle all that well in bed!

That’s true. OTOH, I have a friend who can fly, and he’s fairly snuggly perched on my arm. Plus, he can talk smile

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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31 May 2019 13:28
 
Dennis Campbell - 30 May 2019 06:43 PM
icehorse - 30 May 2019 06:31 PM
Dennis Campbell - 29 May 2019 06:53 AM

Get another dog.

Trying to do that.  Seems with rescue organizations you have to prove you’re a suitable adoptive parent. Bit of a pain. Ironically can buy from a breeder with no questions asked.

I love dogs, and cats, and horses. We’ve got ‘em all.

We ALSO have a Pacific parrotlet. He weighs a whopping 30 grams. We’ve had him for 5 years and he astounds me every friggin day. Might be worth looking into a parrotlet!

Birds don’t snuggle all that well in bed!

Remember Jared Diamond ant his best sellers like ‘GUNS, GERMS, AND STEEL’, and ‘COLLAPSE’?  I just found out that in 1997 he wrote , ‘WHY IS SEX FUN - The Evolution of Human Sexuality’, so I got a copy at the library.  Only a few pages in, so will report later.  (not that we need convincing about the fun part).

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Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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31 May 2019 16:55
 

I’ve been taking care of a sick parent (my father) since he had a stroke 3 months ago.  Cooking meals, making sure he stands up and gets going, doctor’s visits, etc.

The only positive thing I can say is that having prospective death forced into one’s face early on in life (27 years old) forces one to reevaluate their decisions.

We cannot understand life without also understanding death.  We cannot properly value life without properly evaluating the cost of death.

When I’m not working or with him, I often go out into the wildnerness to be alone.  One of the “harsh” realities of death and life is that no one else can ever bear your burdens, and you are mostly powerless to ease the burden of others. 

We ourselves are the only constant in our lives.  Everyone else passes.  If we can accept this reality, we won’t be blindsided by our decline and death, nor the ones of those we love.  That doesn’t mean we won’t feel the associated pain, but it’s better than trying to grapple with something that is undefeated (Father Time).

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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31 May 2019 16:58
 

#43 above

Very on point post. Thanks for that.

I’m left with a confusing and debilitating mixture of intense emotions: a sort of narcissistic anger; deep depression; a wish to be dead; a sense of indifference to current events….but a small hope that I can get a small dog.  None of that is intellectual nor some lofty philosophical conclusions. Also a sense of abandonment by others. Understandable, people avoid anguish and especially when there’s nothing they can do anyway. Vodka helps dull the pain, no apologies. So does sleep, apart from nasty dreams.

I am NOT seeking sympathy from others. This is a life sometimes sucks thread. I’ve no glib answers.

[ Edited: 31 May 2019 17:27 by Dennis Campbell]
 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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31 May 2019 23:32
 
Dennis Campbell - 30 May 2019 12:55 PM
unsmoked - 30 May 2019 12:17 PM
Brick Bungalow - 28 May 2019 07:45 PM

 

In late autumn the monk was called away for a month to substitute for his old teacher in a distant prefecture.  Returning home he found that his mother had died in a cold house two days before.  He went to the shrine where people were gathered around the coffin, weeping and wailing.  They made way for him, expecting a long, grief-stricken eulogy.  The monk stood quietly by the coffin for a few minutes then banged on it three times with his staff .  He turned to the mourners and said, “Funeral’s over.  Bury the body.”

[/

Agree. At least I did not have to deal with religious rites when my wife died. She was cremated and we all met a week or so later to honor her life not death.

One experience I remember quite vividly was finding a humanist congregation in Portland Oregon shortly after moving there. Having been raised religiously my life events had always been marked with prayers and affirmations of dogma. On my second visit there was an announcement that an elderly woman had passed during the previous week. It was stated simply and directly. The congregation simply stood in respectful silence for about five minutes without having to be told. It was the first time I had ever experienced a death being marked in that fashion and it was one of the things that cemented my conviction as an adult non believer. I cooperate to preserve the dignity of memory and to honor last wishes as best I’m able. Past that my duties lie with the living.

 
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