1 2 3 > 
 
   
 

TRUMP DUMP 2 - Road to the 2020 Election

 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8768
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
06 June 2019 12:04
 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/04/22/the-trump-netanyahu-alliance

Here is the last paragraph in this New Yorker article by David Remnick:

Trump has become more himself with time. He has far less patience with advisers who try to rein him in or challenge his ugly and fantastical distortions of reality. His appointments grow worse, his resentments more inflamed, his policies more damaging. His reëlection would have a catastrophic effect on the rule of law, liberal democracy, the values of tolerance, and the baseline of decency in American life. We are seeing it all over the globe: the politics of fear and division exact an inestimable price. ?

This article appears in the print edition of the April 22, 2019, issue, with the headline “Partners in Division.”

Yesterday on NPR I heard a Brit, interviewed on the streets of London, saying that he liked Americans, but felt sorry for what had happened to them since 2016.  Sorry for what had happened to their country, and the world.

 

Image Attachments
 
126_2683.JPG
 
 
 
Twissel
 
Avatar
 
 
Twissel
Total Posts:  2875
Joined  19-01-2015
 
 
 
06 June 2019 13:14
 

Trump can win if people believe that him losing 2020 is inevitable.

 
 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8768
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
07 June 2019 12:43
 

Does the word ‘conservative’ define Trump supporters?  Have conservatives always denied scientific or academic predictions?

 
 
EN
 
Avatar
 
 
EN
Total Posts:  21825
Joined  11-03-2007
 
 
 
07 June 2019 18:15
 
unsmoked - 07 June 2019 12:43 PM

Does the word ‘conservative’ define Trump supporters?  Have conservatives always denied scientific or academic predictions?

Trump is not a conservative.  He is a non-ideological narcissist.

 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15915
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
07 June 2019 19:17
 
Twissel - 06 June 2019 01:14 PM

Trump can win if people believe that him losing 2020 is inevitable.

Last CNN poll 54% believe he’ll be re-elected.

 
Twissel
 
Avatar
 
 
Twissel
Total Posts:  2875
Joined  19-01-2015
 
 
 
07 June 2019 21:38
 
burt - 07 June 2019 07:17 PM
Twissel - 06 June 2019 01:14 PM

Trump can win if people believe that him losing 2020 is inevitable.

Last CNN poll 54% believe he’ll be re-elected.

Yeah, it’s interesting.

Just with the support for Biden, people no longer say what they want to happen, only what they think will happen.
But to be honest, in a 2-party system, strategic voting is the way to go.

 
 
Skipshot
 
Avatar
 
 
Skipshot
Total Posts:  9721
Joined  20-10-2006
 
 
 
07 June 2019 21:42
 

The only bright spot in the Trump presidency is that Congress refuses to give him any new laws to sign.  On the other hand, he does not need Congress’s approval to use executive orders to do nearly anything he wants, and mostly what he wants is on the Republican agenda anyway - deconstruct socialist policies which help the poor and disadvantaged.  Republicans in Congress get what they want and do not take responsibility or blame since all the vitriol goes to Trump. 

And if things look bad for Republicans in 2020 then they abandon Trump and wash their hands, then say they privately never supported him anyway and that Trump isn’t a real Republican anyway.  Win-win.

My Magic 8 Ball says that no matter what happens in 2020 he will spread fear and lies until he dies.  He is the messiah of the radical right, and dead or alive, that Pandora’s Box of a president will influence American politics for a very long time because the legitimacy of the radical right has been confirmed by the electorate.  Trump is the same as Hitler and Southern Confederates, and will have followers for generations.

 
Brick Bungalow
 
Avatar
 
 
Brick Bungalow
Total Posts:  5205
Joined  28-05-2009
 
 
 
08 June 2019 00:30
 

Yeah. I will oppose him with everything I’ve got but I’m not confident that he will be defeated. Not by any means. I feel like he is the chicken come home to roost in a sense. The repugnant conclusion of a series of decades in which our nation has passively surrendered it’s principles. I’m reminded of some classic satire here. We get the leaders we deserve.

My hope is that he’s awakened and coalesced something vital. Something that will unify to defeat him and disavow the nihilism he represents. I know a certain segment our society views him as a savior. They are a minority but they are minority with great leverage because they are unified and because they do not hold their caucus accountable for double standards. I don’t mean Republicans. Many Republicans are very principled people. I’m referring specifically to what I’d consider national chauvinists and exceptionalists. The root of all fascist movements.

Part of me says ‘this too shall pass’ but that is ringing hollow lately. I think we have a modicum of civility and peace that is based on material wealth and that material wealth is based on an unstable system of constantly borrowing from the future. We’ve seen several dramatic crashes in recent years resulting, I think from deregulation combined with runaway greed. A lesson Trump clearly has not learned and will not learn. I think his administration has the potential to create a greater catastrophe than any of us have lived through. If we enter something like a great depression in our current state of division… I don’t know.

It’s hard to miss the pattern with Republican Presidents. They have gotten progressively less articulate, less informed and less ethical. A coincidence perhaps but if this represents a real sampling of the vector of our culture… I don’t know.

Defeating Trump is necessary but not sufficient. We need to defeat Trump psychology and the psychology at all points on the spectrum that is fixated on making a polar divide between working citizens. The psychology that insists upon highlighting, inflating and instigating points of conflict first at the expense of cooperation, dialogue and respect. Trump haters who are unwilling to converse in peace or to respect the space of people they disagree with are no ally here.

As far as tactics goes the DNC needs to respect the primary vote and not utilize a superdelegate veto. They will win the election if they can find the conviction to actually represent constituents. They have the majority. They just need to find the heart to choose principle over money.

 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8768
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
08 June 2019 13:22
 
Brick Bungalow - 08 June 2019 12:30 AM

Yeah. I will oppose him with everything I’ve got but I’m not confident that he will be defeated. Not by any means. I feel like he is the chicken come home to roost in a sense. The repugnant conclusion of a series of decades in which our nation has passively surrendered it’s principles. I’m reminded of some classic satire here. We get the leaders we deserve.

My hope is that he’s awakened and coalesced something vital. Something that will unify to defeat him and disavow the nihilism he represents. I know a certain segment our society views him as a savior. They are a minority but they are minority with great leverage because they are unified and because they do not hold their caucus accountable for double standards. I don’t mean Republicans. Many Republicans are very principled people. I’m referring specifically to what I’d consider national chauvinists and exceptionalists. The root of all fascist movements.

Part of me says ‘this too shall pass’ but that is ringing hollow lately. I think we have a modicum of civility and peace that is based on material wealth and that material wealth is based on an unstable system of constantly borrowing from the future. We’ve seen several dramatic crashes in recent years resulting, I think from deregulation combined with runaway greed. A lesson Trump clearly has not learned and will not learn. I think his administration has the potential to create a greater catastrophe than any of us have lived through. If we enter something like a great depression in our current state of division… I don’t know.

It’s hard to miss the pattern with Republican Presidents. They have gotten progressively less articulate, less informed and less ethical. A coincidence perhaps but if this represents a real sampling of the vector of our culture… I don’t know.

Defeating Trump is necessary but not sufficient. We need to defeat Trump psychology and the psychology at all points on the spectrum that is fixated on making a polar divide between working citizens. The psychology that insists upon highlighting, inflating and instigating points of conflict first at the expense of cooperation, dialogue and respect. Trump haters who are unwilling to converse in peace or to respect the space of people they disagree with are no ally here.

As far as tactics goes the DNC needs to respect the primary vote and not utilize a superdelegate veto. They will win the election if they can find the conviction to actually represent constituents. They have the majority. They just need to find the heart to choose principle over money.

On PBS news last night did any of you see dozens of these armed warplanes launching off a carrier within easy range of Tehran?  https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/06/04/us-aircraft-carrier-deployed-over-iran-remains-outside-gulf.html

The captain insisting to the reporter that intelligence is rock solid, but refuses to say what the threat is.  Is it Trump demonstrating his prowess and readiness as Commander in Chief?  Trump/Netanyahu games?  Sadam and Yellow Cake II?  Garner the votes of blue collar hawks of which there are millions?

 

Image Attachments
 
File1645.jpg
 
 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
Avatar
 
 
Brick Bungalow
Total Posts:  5205
Joined  28-05-2009
 
 
 
09 June 2019 22:03
 
unsmoked - 08 June 2019 01:22 PM

On PBS news last night did any of you see dozens of these armed warplanes launching off a carrier within easy range of Tehran?  https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/06/04/us-aircraft-carrier-deployed-over-iran-remains-outside-gulf.html

The captain insisting to the reporter that intelligence is rock solid, but refuses to say what the threat is.  Is it Trump demonstrating his prowess and readiness as Commander in Chief?  Trump/Netanyahu games?  Sadam and Yellow Cake II?  Garner the votes of blue collar hawks of which there are millions?

 

My own feeling is that we have a military industrial complex intertwined with a fossil fuel complex and this chimera is larger than the agenda or indeed the knowledge of any particular chief executive. Our adventures in the middle east do not seem remarkably linked to the party swings. We go after the oil no matter what. I think this is likely parcel to the reason that the DNC needs to superdelegate-veto any kind of real progressive. Conservatives are open about support for Israel. Liberals are critical or else silent but the practical movements remain the same. The tactical objectives don’t change. Not as far as I can tell. On this particular topic Trump might actually be better than Hillary. I think she would have moved on Iran inside the first year.

What makes me more sad and worried is that I honestly don’t know what the right thing to do is. What is the real nuclear threat like in the middle east? Where would caliphate imperial ambitions be on the world stage if coalition powers were not in occupation or if Israel did not exist? I honestly don’t know.

 

 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8768
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
10 June 2019 11:32
 
Brick Bungalow - 09 June 2019 10:03 PM
unsmoked - 08 June 2019 01:22 PM

On PBS news last night did any of you see dozens of these armed warplanes launching off a carrier within easy range of Tehran?  https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/06/04/us-aircraft-carrier-deployed-over-iran-remains-outside-gulf.html

The captain insisting to the reporter that intelligence is rock solid, but refuses to say what the threat is.  Is it Trump demonstrating his prowess and readiness as Commander in Chief?  Trump/Netanyahu games?  Sadam and Yellow Cake II?  Garner the votes of blue collar hawks of which there are millions?

 

My own feeling is that we have a military industrial complex intertwined with a fossil fuel complex and this chimera is larger than the agenda or indeed the knowledge of any particular chief executive. Our adventures in the middle east do not seem remarkably linked to the party swings. We go after the oil no matter what. I think this is likely parcel to the reason that the DNC needs to superdelegate-veto any kind of real progressive. Conservatives are open about support for Israel. Liberals are critical or else silent but the practical movements remain the same. The tactical objectives don’t change. Not as far as I can tell. On this particular topic Trump might actually be better than Hillary. I think she would have moved on Iran inside the first year.

What makes me more sad and worried is that I honestly don’t know what the right thing to do is. What is the real nuclear threat like in the middle east? Where would caliphate imperial ambitions be on the world stage if coalition powers were not in occupation or if Israel did not exist? I honestly don’t know.

Can we learn anything from U.S. efforts to bring regime change in Iraq in 2003, and Libya in 2011? (to name just two cases)  Would the general population of Iran welcome a U.S. invasion?  Will they hold democratic elections, chose a leader friendly to the U.S. and start selling more oil to the U.S.?  Will the 300,000 active Iranian army turn in their weapons and become happy campers on a pension?  Are there powerful Islamic forces in Iran?  A repeat of the Libyan disaster?  Russia and Syria, China, India sit by watching a U.S. takeover of all that oil?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/iran-oil-sanctions-china-and-india-will-remain-defiant-against-us.html

Is Trump poking a hornet’s nest with a stick?  Why were U.S. allies appalled when he broke off nuke treaty with Iran?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44045957

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
Avatar
 
 
Brick Bungalow
Total Posts:  5205
Joined  28-05-2009
 
 
 
10 June 2019 22:45
 

I feel certain there are many Iranians who would be delighted to defeat the mullahs. I think that is true across the middle east and north africa. I think it’s true in every region we’ve occupied. I’ve had the privilege to speak to some of these folks in person. The true proportions are probably impossible to derive given the nature of these societies.

 
Twissel
 
Avatar
 
 
Twissel
Total Posts:  2875
Joined  19-01-2015
 
 
 
11 June 2019 02:03
 

Winning in Afghanistan is the Beginners Level for winning in Iran.

 
 
Skipshot
 
Avatar
 
 
Skipshot
Total Posts:  9721
Joined  20-10-2006
 
 
 
11 June 2019 07:36
 
Twissel - 11 June 2019 02:03 AM

Winning in Afghanistan is the Beginners Level for winning in Iran.

The US is in Afghanistan because someone friendly to the US government is making lots of money on the operation.  The history of invading armies in the country says it is unconquerable, which is great if your business is supplying an occupying army.

 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8768
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
12 June 2019 14:14
 
Skipshot - 11 June 2019 07:36 AM
Twissel - 11 June 2019 02:03 AM

Winning in Afghanistan is the Beginners Level for winning in Iran.

The US is in Afghanistan because someone friendly to the US government is making lots of money on the operation.  The history of invading armies in the country says it is unconquerable, which is great if your business is supplying an occupying army.

PBS travel guide, Rick Steves in Iran.  https://www.ricksteves.com/tv-programmers/specials/iran

 

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
Avatar
 
 
Brick Bungalow
Total Posts:  5205
Joined  28-05-2009
 
 
 
13 June 2019 14:53
 
Twissel - 11 June 2019 02:03 AM

Winning in Afghanistan is the Beginners Level for winning in Iran.

I suspect that ‘winning’ has not been the objective of coalition powers in recent decades. Our leaders stopped thinking in terms of exit strategies because the goal isn’t closure.

 
 1 2 3 >