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Is your religion mythology?

 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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28 July 2019 14:42
 

bbearen has constructed an argument for his God that is beyond any dissection whatsoever. Any attempt at obtaining clarity merely results in absurd accusations of an atheistic “faith” and preconceived notions of God. And his oft-quoted tagline, “I am not nor here to build cred, reputation, or to be recognized as having an opinion worth addressing.”

To me, it seems a disingenuous approach designed to claim a God while not having to defend it.   
 
Ron

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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28 July 2019 15:40
 
MrRon - 28 July 2019 02:42 PM

bbearen has constructed an argument for his God that is beyond any dissection whatsoever. Any attempt at obtaining clarity merely results in absurd accusations of an atheistic “faith” and preconceived notions of God. And his oft-quoted tagline, “I am not nor here to build cred, reputation, or to be recognized as having an opinion worth addressing.”

To me, it seems a disingenuous approach designed to claim a God while not having to defend it.   
 
Ron

I suspect it is something like deism or pantheism, but I don’t want to be accused of inventing or projecting onto him.
I hope he will clarify.  I’m curious and interested.

 
 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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29 July 2019 04:48
 
Jefe - 28 July 2019 03:40 PM
MrRon - 28 July 2019 02:42 PM

bbearen has constructed an argument for his God that is beyond any dissection whatsoever. Any attempt at obtaining clarity merely results in absurd accusations of an atheistic “faith” and preconceived notions of God. And his oft-quoted tagline, “I am not nor here to build cred, reputation, or to be recognized as having an opinion worth addressing.”

To me, it seems a disingenuous approach designed to claim a God while not having to defend it.   
 
Ron

I suspect it is something like deism or pantheism, but I don’t want to be accused of inventing or projecting onto him.
I hope he will clarify.  I’m curious and interested.

See?? You are still talking about your faith! (so he would say)
Anyway, good luck with that.

Ron

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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29 July 2019 08:50
 
MrRon - 29 July 2019 04:48 AM
Jefe - 28 July 2019 03:40 PM
MrRon - 28 July 2019 02:42 PM

bbearen has constructed an argument for his God that is beyond any dissection whatsoever. Any attempt at obtaining clarity merely results in absurd accusations of an atheistic “faith” and preconceived notions of God. And his oft-quoted tagline, “I am not nor here to build cred, reputation, or to be recognized as having an opinion worth addressing.”

To me, it seems a disingenuous approach designed to claim a God while not having to defend it.   
 
Ron

I suspect it is something like deism or pantheism, but I don’t want to be accused of inventing or projecting onto him.
I hope he will clarify.  I’m curious and interested.

See?? You are still talking about your faith! (so he would say)
Anyway, good luck with that.

Ron

BB responded in another thread.

 
 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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29 July 2019 09:31
 
Jefe - 29 July 2019 08:50 AM
MrRon - 29 July 2019 04:48 AM
Jefe - 28 July 2019 03:40 PM
MrRon - 28 July 2019 02:42 PM

bbearen has constructed an argument for his God that is beyond any dissection whatsoever. Any attempt at obtaining clarity merely results in absurd accusations of an atheistic “faith” and preconceived notions of God. And his oft-quoted tagline, “I am not nor here to build cred, reputation, or to be recognized as having an opinion worth addressing.”

To me, it seems a disingenuous approach designed to claim a God while not having to defend it.   
 
Ron

I suspect it is something like deism or pantheism, but I don’t want to be accused of inventing or projecting onto him.
I hope he will clarify.  I’m curious and interested.

See?? You are still talking about your faith! (so he would say)
Anyway, good luck with that.

Ron

BB responded in another thread.

Which thread??

Ron

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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29 July 2019 09:45
 
MrRon - 29 July 2019 09:31 AM
Jefe - 29 July 2019 08:50 AM
MrRon - 29 July 2019 04:48 AM
Jefe - 28 July 2019 03:40 PM
MrRon - 28 July 2019 02:42 PM

bbearen has constructed an argument for his God that is beyond any dissection whatsoever. Any attempt at obtaining clarity merely results in absurd accusations of an atheistic “faith” and preconceived notions of God. And his oft-quoted tagline, “I am not nor here to build cred, reputation, or to be recognized as having an opinion worth addressing.”

To me, it seems a disingenuous approach designed to claim a God while not having to defend it.   
 
Ron

I suspect it is something like deism or pantheism, but I don’t want to be accused of inventing or projecting onto him.
I hope he will clarify.  I’m curious and interested.

See?? You are still talking about your faith! (so he would say)
Anyway, good luck with that.

Ron

BB responded in another thread.

Which thread??

Ron

Forum Funway:  Nature to Natures Fullest Extent

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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01 August 2019 18:42
 

I gave an example of an answered prayer a while back. One objection was why has God never healed an amputee.  There is one account in the gospels of Peter cutting off a man’s ear and Jesus healing it.  There is an account of God healing an amputee. Yes, it was only an ear, but there is the account. I don’t know if another amputee has been healed in the 2000 years since, but there are no historical accounts of billions of things that people have experienced.  All I know is what is recorded, and what I have experienced.

 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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02 August 2019 06:20
 
EN - 01 August 2019 06:42 PM

I gave an example of an answered prayer a while back. One objection was why has God never healed an amputee.  There is one account in the gospels of Peter cutting off a man’s ear and Jesus healing it.  There is an account of God healing an amputee. Yes, it was only an ear, but there is the account. I don’t know if another amputee has been healed in the 2000 years since, but there are no historical accounts of billions of things that people have experienced.  All I know is what is recorded, and what I have experienced.

OK, but why are there no amputee healings nowadays? Why do you have to resort to an anecdotal account from thousands of years ago? In contrast, there are many Christians alive TODAY who would swear that their disease or condition was healed by God. So even if we grant that God healed amputees at one time, it’s obvious that he stopped doing that long ago for some reason, while continuing to heal anything and everything else. Does that make sense? Does God have something against amputees?

Ron

 
Garret
 
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Garret
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02 August 2019 07:11
 

I don’t concede that God healed one once.  Even using the gospels for this seems really flimsy.  Three of the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, and John, all give the servant having his ear cut off as part of the crucifixion story, but only Luke adds that Jesus healed him.  It doesn’t say how he healed him though, and I don’t mean “by what means”, but rather what effect Jesus had on him.  Did he just stop the bleeding?  Did the ear grow back?  Did he just restore his hearing?  It doesn’t say.

If we were to take the gospels at face value and consider all 4 to be mostly true witnesses to Jesus time as a preacher, we have 3 witnesses telling us that nothing special happened to the servant’s ear, and one making an extraordinary claim.  It is more likely that the three witnesses who agree are going to be correct.

To that end, we don’t even have a second source making the claim of the healed ear.  Lastly, we have no way of verifying or falsifying this source’s claim.

I’m not saying that it isn’t true, but there is not sufficient evidence to believe that it is true.

[ Edited: 02 August 2019 07:15 by Garret]
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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02 August 2019 07:55
 
MrRon - 02 August 2019 06:20 AM
EN - 01 August 2019 06:42 PM

I gave an example of an answered prayer a while back. One objection was why has God never healed an amputee.  There is one account in the gospels of Peter cutting off a man’s ear and Jesus healing it.  There is an account of God healing an amputee. Yes, it was only an ear, but there is the account. I don’t know if another amputee has been healed in the 2000 years since, but there are no historical accounts of billions of things that people have experienced.  All I know is what is recorded, and what I have experienced.

OK, but why are there no amputee healings nowadays? Why do you have to resort to an anecdotal account from thousands of years ago? In contrast, there are many Christians alive TODAY who would swear that their disease or condition was healed by God. So even if we grant that God healed amputees at one time, it’s obvious that he stopped doing that long ago for some reason, while continuing to heal anything and everything else. Does that make sense? Does God have something against amputees?

Ron

What? Today, we still have access to quite a few of the miracles that must have astounded crowds a couple of thousand years ago, and then some. In other words, we not only have what the ancients had; we have much more of it. You can get it on TV, or even see it live if you prefer. “Healing” an amputee would be child’s play to a guy like the Great Carbonaro. He can turn his head around 360-degrees and feel just fine for the rest of the day—think he can’t produce a measly little ear?

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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02 August 2019 11:49
 
nonverbal - 02 August 2019 07:55 AM

What? Today, we still have access to quite a few of the miracles that must have astounded crowds a couple of thousand years ago, and then some. In other words, we not only have what the ancients had; we have much more of it. You can get it on TV, or even see it live if you prefer. “Healing” an amputee would be child’s play to a guy like the Great Carbonaro. He can turn his head around 360-degrees and feel just fine for the rest of the day—think he can’t produce a measly little ear?

Mountain man Jedediah Smith

“Smith proved himself a leader quickly on the trail. On his second expedition, he was attacked by a grizzly bear. The bear came out of the thicket and mauled Smith violently, throwing him to the ground, smashing his ribs and literally ripping off his scalp. When the attack was over, the scalp was hanging on to his head by an ear. Smith instructed Jim Clyman to sew it back on. Clyman did the best he could, but thought nothing could be done for the severed ear. Smith insisted that he try. According to Clyman,

“I put my needle sticking it through and through and over and over laying the lacerated parts together as nice as I could with my hands.”
After two weeks of rest, Smith resumed his duty as captain of the party.”

Maybe one of the disciples had a needle and thread in his bag?  Then the story got changed to attract bigger crowds to Jesus’ sermons?

https://daily.jstor.org/how-p-t-barnum-gave-the-public-what-it-wanted/

[ Edited: 02 August 2019 11:55 by unsmoked]
 
 
EN
 
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EN
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02 August 2019 17:57
 
MrRon - 02 August 2019 06:20 AM
EN - 01 August 2019 06:42 PM

I gave an example of an answered prayer a while back. One objection was why has God never healed an amputee.  There is one account in the gospels of Peter cutting off a man’s ear and Jesus healing it.  There is an account of God healing an amputee. Yes, it was only an ear, but there is the account. I don’t know if another amputee has been healed in the 2000 years since, but there are no historical accounts of billions of things that people have experienced.  All I know is what is recorded, and what I have experienced.

OK, but why are there no amputee healings nowadays? Why do you have to resort to an anecdotal account from thousands of years ago? In contrast, there are many Christians alive TODAY who would swear that their disease or condition was healed by God. So even if we grant that God healed amputees at one time, it’s obvious that he stopped doing that long ago for some reason, while continuing to heal anything and everything else. Does that make sense? Does God have something against amputees?

Ron

I’ve already told you - there is little faith. You have done your job well.

 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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03 August 2019 04:25
 
MrRon - 28 July 2019 02:42 PM

bbearen has constructed an argument for his God that is beyond any dissection whatsoever. Any attempt at obtaining clarity merely results in absurd accusations of an atheistic “faith” and preconceived notions of God. And his oft-quoted tagline, “I am not nor here to build cred, reputation, or to be recognized as having an opinion worth addressing.”

To me, it seems a disingenuous approach designed to claim a God while not having to defend it.   
 
Ron

Contemporary apologetics in a nutshell.

 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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03 August 2019 05:16
 
EN - 02 August 2019 05:57 PM
MrRon - 02 August 2019 06:20 AM
EN - 01 August 2019 06:42 PM

I gave an example of an answered prayer a while back. One objection was why has God never healed an amputee.  There is one account in the gospels of Peter cutting off a man’s ear and Jesus healing it.  There is an account of God healing an amputee. Yes, it was only an ear, but there is the account. I don’t know if another amputee has been healed in the 2000 years since, but there are no historical accounts of billions of things that people have experienced.  All I know is what is recorded, and what I have experienced.

OK, but why are there no amputee healings nowadays? Why do you have to resort to an anecdotal account from thousands of years ago? In contrast, there are many Christians alive TODAY who would swear that their disease or condition was healed by God. So even if we grant that God healed amputees at one time, it’s obvious that he stopped doing that long ago for some reason, while continuing to heal anything and everything else. Does that make sense? Does God have something against amputees?

Ron

I’ve already told you - there is little faith. You have done your job well.

So, correct me if I have any of this wrong…

according to your view,

1) God values faith more than rationality.

2) God heals according to a) the level of faith one has, and b) the severity of the condition. So things like headaches and colds require relatively less faith to cure than things like diabetes and cancer.

3) It must require tremendously more faith to cure an amputee than to cure cancer (because it’s not too difficult to find Christians who would claim God cured their cancer, however there are NO cases of Christian amputees having been cured). This despite the fact that curing cancer is a greater intervention because it means the difference between life and death. With amputees, it is not a life and death situation. So you would think that curing cancer, and not limb loss, would require the ultimate faith. 

4) God used to cure amputees in biblical times. But he no longer cures amputees. So no Christian amputee in modern times has ever had as much faith as a Christian amputee a couple thousand years ago.


Ron

 
EN
 
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EN
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03 August 2019 06:56
 

Without faith it is impossible to please him.  Our rationality does not impress him - he is the Logos, he created the laws of nature, he created rationality, he doesn’t need us to impress him with that. But he knows that reason leads to pride, so he has placed faith as the threshold requirement for experiencing him. Once faith is removed, God’s presence (or the experience of it) has been removed. So whatever knowledge of God was possible has also been removed.  You are dedicated to the destruction of faith. Therefore, you participate in the removal of the path to God. Then you argue that there is no evidence of God. 

Rationality has its place and we have been given reason to apply to our daily life.  There is no prohibition against using it. But when it comes to the experience of God, faith is primary. Those are the rules.  If we do not experience God, it is because of lack of faith.  If you want to experience God, start with faith.

 
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