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what will the myths be in 500 years?

 
lynmc
 
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lynmc
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10 July 2019 19:41
 

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/07/israeli-security-monstrosity/

Israeli officials are busy purging their archives of evidence of Israel’s foundational acts of genocide against Palestinians, for example this one (quoted from article):

‘“Sufsaf: They took 52 men, tied them to one another, dug a ditch and shot them. Ten were still squirming when [unclear]. Women came, begging for mercy. The bodies of six old men were found. There were 61 bodies [in total?]. Three cases of rape. One [of the rapists was?] a Mizrahi man from Safed, a 14 years old girl [was one of the rape victims?], four men were shot and killed. One of them had his fingers removed by a knife so as to take the ring.”’

(note: Sufsaf was a village in what’s now northern Israel.  Palestinian survivors tell a similar story)

2000 years ago, relatively few people were literate and also, there wasn’t the vast amounts of sheer information available.  State officials or others could write mythology as fact and have it be widely believed.  Today that isn’t the case, so it seems unlikely these Israeli officials will be unable to completely cover up the truth.  On the other hand, their tactic seems as much to cast doubt, like climate change deniers, and they have a lot of willing believers - from Christian Zionists to secular ones - and mythology has a strong pull.  So much so, that some people even deny the existence of Palestinians, so (I guess) massacres like the one described above couldn’t have happened! 

So I’m curious, to people think we’re witnessing the beginning of new mythology, a new (but substantially fake) origins story?

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 07:02
 

There’s no question what we are witnessing is genocide.  And as long as we allow corrupt leaders to exploit fictitious religious claims and circumvent the laws the mission to slaughter will continue.  The need to establish a homeland was understandable and necessary after WWII.  This is not that as the tables have turned.  Things have changed but attitudes are stuck in 1945.  The campaign to distort the past seventy years has been wildly successful as people shy away from uncomfortable topics, especially relating to religion, parroting every outdated argument they’ve ever heard to justify what they already believe.  These attempts to rewrite the history are happening in real time.  The evidence tells another story.  The history will reflect that.  I suspect in 500 years people will care about it as much as they do now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=megzzpTWajg

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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11 July 2019 08:16
 
LadyJane - 11 July 2019 07:02 AM

There’s no question what we are witnessing is genocide.  And as long as we allow corrupt leaders to exploit fictitious religious claims and circumvent the laws the mission to slaughter will continue.  The need to establish a homeland was understandable and necessary after WWII.  This is not that as the tables have turned.  Things have changed but attitudes are stuck in 1945.  The campaign to distort the past seventy years has been wildly successful as people shy away from uncomfortable topics, especially relating to religion, parroting every outdated argument they’ve ever heard to justify what they already believe.  These attempts to rewrite the history are happening in real time.  The evidence tells another story.  The history will reflect that.  I suspect in 500 years people will care about it as much as they do now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=megzzpTWajg

Really? Can you provide any stats for that? Hamas declared war on Israel decades ago. I might agree if you said that Israel has committed war-time atrocities, but genocide? In wartime?

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 08:35
 

This genocide has been going on long before the formation of Hamas.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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11 July 2019 08:40
 
LadyJane - 11 July 2019 08:35 AM

This genocide has been going on long before the formation of Hamas.

In your opinion, which date ranges are relevant here?

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 08:48
 

Watch the video.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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11 July 2019 11:53
 
LadyJane - 11 July 2019 08:48 AM

Watch the video.

The last 100 years in what we now call Israel is immensely complex. This video cherry-picks, makes unsupported claims, and attempts to capture crucial linguistic high ground. To be fair, pro-Israel videos do the same thing in reverse.

I think both sides of this conflict have a lot to answer for. To say that “Israel is committing genocide” is a gross oversimplification, and misrepresents the actual situation.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 12:21
 

The original post is asking if we think history will be rewritten to the extent it invents an entirely new origins story.  As long as people avoid the topic and evade responsibility revisions are created, evidence is destroyed, the status quo remains intact and the genocide continues.  We can’t possibly select only specific date ranges and still preserve the context that informs our understanding in the present before postulating 500 years in the future.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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11 July 2019 12:30
 
LadyJane - 11 July 2019 12:21 PM

The original post is asking if we think history will be rewritten to the extent it invents an entirely new origins story.  As long as people avoid the topic and evade responsibility revisions are created, evidence is destroyed, the status quo remains intact and the genocide continues.  We can’t possibly select only specific date ranges and still preserve the context that informs our understanding in the present before postulating 500 years in the future.

Both sides have been working on rewriting the history for many years now. By using the word “genocide” again, you are a part of that re-writing process. As just one counterpoint, notice that in the video you asked us to watch, the words “Islam” and “Muslim” weren’t used. That’s clearly an attempt to rewrite the history.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 12:41
 

Thirty five seconds in, actually.  I still don’t see what that has to do with anything.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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11 July 2019 13:06
 
LadyJane - 11 July 2019 12:41 PM

Thirty five seconds in, actually.  I still don’t see what that has to do with anything.

I’m guessing that you’re wondering what religion has to do with this? If so, imagine that the Jews had occupied the same sized piece of land but in the SW corner of Jordan or the northern side of the Sinai. Do you imagine the extent of the conflict would have been the same is it has been?

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 13:15
 

Yes.  As it would’ve been had they occupied the same sized piece of land in the Central Valley of California.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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11 July 2019 13:33
 
LadyJane - 11 July 2019 01:15 PM

Yes.  As it would’ve been had they occupied the same sized piece of land in the Central Valley of California.

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree on this point. The fact that Israel is on such religiously hallowed ground has made this situation FAR worse than it would have been otherwise. Remember that Jordan and Syria and Iran and Iraq and so on, were all “made up” by the British 100 years ago. (And horribly done, BTW.) We just don’t see anywhere near the same level of intensity when it’s about not-holy land. For example, notice that it’s almost a footnote that Israel won and then gave back the Sinai.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 13:48
 

The southwest corner of Jordan and the northern side of the Sinai (not to mention the Central Valley of California) are not particularly hallowed ground either.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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11 July 2019 13:59
 
LadyJane - 11 July 2019 01:48 PM

The southwest corner of Jordan and the northern side of the Sinai (not to mention the Central Valley of California) are not particularly hallowed ground either.

Exactly. My speculation is that those other regions in the ME would not have caused anywhere near the strife that Israel’s location has caused. And I’m by no means the first to notice that. One of the boss’s best friends, Hitch, talked eloquently about this fact.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 July 2019 14:04
 

Palestine has never wanted to become a Theocracy.  Israel officially declared itself a Jewish Nation State about a year ago.  Laying the groundwork for the story they wish to perpetuate.  The Zionists seem to be the ones inching closer to a Fundamentalist Theocracy.

 
 
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