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Leave it or fix it?

 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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08 August 2019 22:02
 
Skipshot - 19 July 2019 06:42 PM

Blaming the weakest in both wealth and political power for the country’s problems and making them a political top priority is the sign of a bully and a distraction to those who swallow that garbage.  Trump is picking their pockets while his distracts his believers with a parade of boogymen.

The crash of 2008 was from the top down, but the top wants you to believe it was the boogeyman’s doing.

You know…..it’s possible to be against such high levels of immigration and/or refugee/asylum influx while ALSO being against the banking cartels.  It’s also possible to want less immigration and refugees/asylum seekers and ALSO be against racializing everything.

You’re hinting at what the reality of our situation as state citizens is, but you’re not saying it outright.  Everyone deep down realizes the extent of the government’s stranglehold over us, and so they will take any little perceived win happily (and that also applies to Democrats btw), even though it does nothing to change the core injustice going on which effects all of us (like the fact that a private cartel with a state-enforced monopoly rules all of us).

Given the obvious, self-evident truth of our situation as citizens, to what end is it to focus on Trump?  To what end is it to focus on the intellectual bread and circuses Trump and Republicans dangle to their constituents (which half the time are just words anyways)?  At what point do stop playing political games here and get serious about fixing the root of the problem?

 
 
Garret
 
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Garret
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08 August 2019 22:11
 

I find your description of the issue as being a self-evident problem to be a political game.

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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08 August 2019 22:32
 
Quadrewple - 08 August 2019 10:02 PM

You’re hinting at what the reality of our situation as state citizens is, but you’re not saying it outright.  Everyone deep down realizes the extent of the government’s stranglehold over us, and so they will take any little perceived win happily (and that also applies to Democrats btw), even though it does nothing to change the core injustice going on which effects all of us (like the fact that a private cartel with a state-enforced monopoly rules all of us).

Given the obvious, self-evident truth of our situation as citizens, to what end is it to focus on Trump?  To what end is it to focus on the intellectual bread and circuses Trump and Republicans dangle to their constituents (which half the time are just words anyways)?  At what point do stop playing political games here and get serious about fixing the root of the problem?

I am not hinting at anything.  Illegal immigrants have always been in America and Americans have turned a blind eye to them, so why are they a problem now? 

What is the root of the problem, in your opinion?  And how is it fixed?  And why should it be fixed?  And why now?  And why has it not been fixed?

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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09 August 2019 10:31
 
Skipshot - 08 August 2019 10:32 PM
Quadrewple - 08 August 2019 10:02 PM

You’re hinting at what the reality of our situation as state citizens is, but you’re not saying it outright.  Everyone deep down realizes the extent of the government’s stranglehold over us, and so they will take any little perceived win happily (and that also applies to Democrats btw), even though it does nothing to change the core injustice going on which effects all of us (like the fact that a private cartel with a state-enforced monopoly rules all of us).

Given the obvious, self-evident truth of our situation as citizens, to what end is it to focus on Trump?  To what end is it to focus on the intellectual bread and circuses Trump and Republicans dangle to their constituents (which half the time are just words anyways)?  At what point do stop playing political games here and get serious about fixing the root of the problem?

I am not hinting at anything.  Illegal immigrants have always been in America and Americans have turned a blind eye to them, so why are they a problem now? 

What is the root of the problem, in your opinion?  And how is it fixed?  And why should it be fixed?  And why now?  And why has it not been fixed?

Quad has bought into the ‘population replacement’ hypothesis of immigration and fears his white-boy culture is in danger of being overcome with non-white-people culture.

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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09 August 2019 12:06
 
Skipshot - 08 August 2019 10:32 PM

What is the root of the problem, in your opinion?  And how is it fixed?  And why should it be fixed?  And why now?  And why has it not been fixed?

I already said, the fact that a private banking cartel with a government enforced monopoly controls our currency.  That’s as root as it gets.

Asking me how the problem should be fixed is a ridiculous thing to ask.  But if we’re not even talking about it, and we’re getting emotionally charged about less significant problems - guaranteed, it will never be fixed.  Just up from the root of the problem is peoples’ acceptance of and/or ignorance of that root problem.  Just up from that is the media which can de facto determine what people talk about, irrespective of what matters (and I know you already believe that about many media outlets).

Citizens have instinctive emotional reactions to the level of state tyranny we have right now because our awareness has increased in the Information Age.  They are then herded into 1 of 2 state-serving dogmas (Republican vs Democrat).  And then (because of media and the political establishments’ influence on discussions), all discourse is herded into topics that do not threaten the political establishments’ power.

There’s something about the word “sheep” or “sheeple” that has captured the imagination of some people when discussing politics.  Of course, it’s always the “other side” that is the sheep - rather than everyone participating in discussions wherein even if a positive outcome is reached legislatively or the sense of human comradery has increased for both parties, it was ultimately a largely irrelevant issue in society.

You can claim to disagree with me, but I don’t believe you actually do.

[ Edited: 09 August 2019 13:39 by Quadrewple]
 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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09 August 2019 13:47
 
Quadrewple - 09 August 2019 12:06 PM
Skipshot - 08 August 2019 10:32 PM

What is the root of the problem, in your opinion?  And how is it fixed?  And why should it be fixed?  And why now?  And why has it not been fixed?

I already said, the fact that a private banking cartel with a government enforced monopoly controls our currency.  That’s as root as it gets.

Asking me how the problem should be fixed is a ridiculous thing to ask.  But if we’re not even talking about it, and we’re getting emotionally charged about less significant problems - guaranteed, it will never be fixed.  Just up from the root of the problem is peoples’ acceptance of and/or ignorance of that root problem.  Just up from that is the media which can de facto determine what people talk about, irrespective of what matters (and I know you already believe that about many media outlets).

Citizens have instinctive emotional reactions to the level of state tyranny we have right now because our awareness has increased in the Information Age.  They are then herded into 1 of 2 state-serving dogmas (Republican vs Democrat).  And then (because of media and the political establishments’ influence on discussions), all discourse is herded into topics that do not threaten the political establishments’ power.

There’s something about the word “sheep” or “sheeple” that has captured the imagination of some people when discussing politics.  Of course, it’s always the “other side” that is the sheep - rather than everyone participating in discussions wherein even if a positive outcome is reached legislatively or the sense of human comradery has increased for both parties, it was ultimately a largely irrelevant issue in society.

You can claim to disagree with me, but I don’t believe you actually do.

And your solution is. . .

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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09 August 2019 14:58
 
Skipshot - 08 August 2019 10:32 PM

Illegal immigrants have always been in America and Americans have turned a blind eye to them, so why are they a problem now?

Wrong. Americans never turned a blind eye to them, our two political parties did. Which is a big reason why Trump, who made illegal immigration the centerpiece of his campaign, got elected.

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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09 August 2019 19:41
 
Skipshot - 09 August 2019 01:47 PM

And your solution is. . .

The solution for me is to not entertain pointless discussions which people have been herded into through propaganda.  I never said I could solve other peoples’ problems.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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09 August 2019 21:17
 
Quadrewple - 09 August 2019 07:41 PM
Skipshot - 09 August 2019 01:47 PM

And your solution is. . .

The solution for me is to not entertain pointless discussions which people have been herded into through propaganda.  I never said I could solve other peoples’ problems.

Good, then shut up.

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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09 August 2019 21:49
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 09 August 2019 02:58 PM
Skipshot - 08 August 2019 10:32 PM

Illegal immigrants have always been in America and Americans have turned a blind eye to them, so why are they a problem now?

Wrong. Americans never turned a blind eye to them, our two political parties did. Which is a big reason why Trump, who made illegal immigration the centerpiece of his campaign, got elected.

Then allow me to clarify.  The people who benefit from illegal immigrants have usually had more money and power, and blocked attempts to seriously do anything about it.  And they still are.  Trump is doing it through executive order to score points with people who are too stupid to burn.  Have you noticed that Trump is making a feeble attempt to do anything about illegal immigration?  A wall?  Encouraging violence?  Everyone knows where the illegals are, but ICE won’t do raids on the businesses which have the money and power to stop a change in the laws.  And speaking of laws, if illegal immigration is as much as a problem as Joe Dumbass Plumber thinks it is, then the employers who hire illegals and landlords who house them are just as responsible for the problem.  Treat illegals like illegal drugs where all parties involved are liable and you will see who takes the problem seriously.

Congress could set up a bounty and a hotline to report illegal immigrant activity and the problem will be solved in weeks.  The current onesie/twosie terrorizing way of doing it now is theater for the sadistic anti-illegal crowd.  Getting rid of illegals is easy, but the antil-illegal crowd does not have the guts to offer a real solution, because obviously the current laws do not work.

 
Garret
 
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Garret
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10 August 2019 08:12
 

A total elimination of undocumented workers would cause dairy prices to increase by 90%.  It would cause about 3500 dairy farms to close in the next year or so.  Approximately 53% of undocumented workers work in the agricultural industry.  Immediate removal of all of them would cause food shortages by the end of next week.  A lot of meat packing plants would immediately either have to shut down or drastically reduce production.  Farmers in most states actually need more labor than is currently available.  Even with undocumented workers currently here, they still need more hands on their farms.

In addition, America doesn’t hate them.  In January 2019, a poll shows that 47% of Americans favor a pathway to citizenship, and another 34% strongly favor a pathway to citizenship.  So, 77% of Americans favor establishing rules and criteria to allow undocumented workers a way to stay in this country.

So I agree, lets stop playing political games with this issue.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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10 August 2019 08:18
 
Garret - 10 August 2019 08:12 AM

A total elimination of undocumented workers would cause dairy prices to increase by 90%.  It would cause about 3500 dairy farms to close in the next year or so.  Approximately 53% of undocumented workers work in the agricultural industry.  Immediate removal of all of them would cause food shortages by the end of next week.  A lot of meat packing plants would immediately either have to shut down or drastically reduce production.  Farmers in most states actually need more labor than is currently available.  Even with undocumented workers currently here, they still need more hands on their farms.

In addition, America doesn’t hate them.  In January 2019, a poll shows that 47% of Americans favor a pathway to citizenship, and another 34% strongly favor a pathway to citizenship.  So, 77% of Americans favor establishing rules and criteria to allow undocumented workers a way to stay in this country.

So I agree, lets stop playing political games with this issue.

Um, the doomsday threat that America will collapse without illegal workers is just fear mongering. And we do have laws, rules and criteria for immigrating.

 
 
mapadofu
 
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mapadofu
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10 August 2019 11:21
 

Garret - what are the source(s) for the specific impacts you quote?

 
Garret
 
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Garret
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10 August 2019 11:32
 
mapadofu - 10 August 2019 11:21 AM

Garret - what are the source(s) for the specific impacts you quote?

Here’s dairy farms.

 
mapadofu
 
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mapadofu
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10 August 2019 11:35
 
Garret - 10 August 2019 11:32 AM
mapadofu - 10 August 2019 11:21 AM

Garret - what are the source(s) for the specific impacts you quote?

Here’s dairy farms.

Thanks

 
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