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It’s offensive to NOT wear a Hijab? Shame on Miss Michigan?

 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
Total Posts:  6417
Joined  31-01-2012
 
 
 
23 July 2019 10:09
 
GAD - 23 July 2019 09:06 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 05:02 AM
GAD - 22 July 2019 06:10 PM
Jb8989 - 22 July 2019 05:07 PM
GAD - 21 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 21 July 2019 11:20 AM

Interesting. I have some thoughts:

Socioeconomic factors are not the legal cause of black and black crime in America, but they are significant contributing factors to the desperation that promotes criminal behavior like selling drugs and robbing people. Saying something like “fix your community first” conflates the two and blames black people for some things that are way out of their control. That’s not smart to say - especially for someone being paid to be fake, even if it was a good faith error in logic. Is it worth losing your job? Does it automatically make her racist?

When she condemned hijabs, she missed that head scarves are actually really fashionable, and making them more fashionable would likely diminish their religious symbolism; a cause she would probably support. So she may sound backwards, but she certainly had her freedom to disparage hijabs on a college campus in a tweet. Additionally, Ms. World is not totally removed from state and federal funding and scholarship. I imagine there’s a good case for Ms. World using their policy over-broadly to infringe on her right to say screw hijabs. The optics of having a contestant who doesn’t like Muslim women was too scary for Ms. World, even though Hijabs are not Muslim women.

Fair enough, but her opinion that hijabs are repression of women is as valid as those who here who say they are not, and her opinion is supported by Islam while theirs is not.

The hijab, guarded chastity and lowered gazes are hard to defend from an equality perspective, but mad muslims wear them for unrelated reasons, too, like simple religious celebration or a feeling of purity v. being a sex symbol. I’m probably religious pandering here, but lumping it all into subjugation probably just makes Muslim women feel more subjugated.

Yet Islam = submission [to god], but there is no god, Islam was invented and written and dictated by men, so really it submission to man [men].

Yeah but they don’t know that. They’re convinced it’s all real. And that they can personally offend GoB with their clothes.

Just as the men who invented god wanted it smile

This is something the snowflakes miss. They’ll defend a Muslim woman’s right to be truly offended for not so good reasons over the speakers right to Express how ridiculous it is to choose your clothes based off not very good reasons. I imagine tact is somewhere in the middle.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
Total Posts:  3468
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23 July 2019 10:44
 

I suppose there must be some reason for wearing 6” stiletto’s that deform the human foot; just not sure what it is.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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23 July 2019 11:27
 
Jan_CAN - 23 July 2019 10:44 AM

I suppose there must be some reason for wearing 6” stiletto’s that deform the human foot; just not sure what it is.

Simultaneously ‘curves-up’ the calves while making it impossible to outrun predators.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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23 July 2019 11:33
 
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

 

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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23 July 2019 11:37
 
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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23 July 2019 11:45
 
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
Total Posts:  7708
Joined  22-02-2014
 
 
 
23 July 2019 11:48
 
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:45 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

Hmmm, I thought we were talking about terms for extremists.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
Total Posts:  7135
Joined  15-02-2007
 
 
 
23 July 2019 11:49
 
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:48 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:45 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

Hmmm, I thought we were talking about terms for extremists.

Where did that stipulation get specified?

Also lets be clear:
Extremist Alt-Righters run people over with cars and go to jail for it.
Extremist lefties toss milkshakes on people.

Do you not see a difference in scope here?

 
 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
Total Posts:  250
Joined  14-09-2017
 
 
 
23 July 2019 11:53
 
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

I never understood the “snowflake” term for the far left.  They want everyone to be equal in every way: equal pay, equal representation in every field, equal healthcare, equal housing, etc.  So why would they be called snowflakes when they want everyone to be the same and possess the same things?  I would think conservatives would more likely fit the snowflake term.
But on second hand, the term makes sense when you realize that most people don’t give a shit about what makes the left “special” anymore.  Nobody cares that you wear a hijab, or that you’re gay or trans, or that you’re a muslim or Chinese.  Most people don’t really care, but those differences are the identity of the far left.  There’s a lot of us who think the hijab is just as stupid as the yarmulke or any other strange accessory.  Nobody cares until you have a “look at my hijab!” day.  Or they say “white people have no culture” or that they enjoy “white privilege”.  Everyone is a racist now.  Inequality by any measure must be due to racism / sexism / privilege. 

 

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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23 July 2019 11:57
 
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:49 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:48 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:45 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

Hmmm, I thought we were talking about terms for extremists.

Where did that stipulation get specified?

Also lets be clear:
Extremist Alt-Righters run people over with cars and go to jail for it.
Extremist lefties toss milkshakes on people.

Do you not see a difference in scope here?

what’s got your knickers in a twist?

Mine was just a continuation of JBs post using “snowflake” and your response. My two related questions were sincere:

Can we agree on a term for folks who are extreme leftists?
Can a person even be “too far left”?

I think a person CAN be too far left, for example any call to censor speech to avoid offensive strikes me as too far left.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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23 July 2019 12:05
 
Jan_CAN - 23 July 2019 10:44 AM

I suppose there must be some reason for wearing 6” stiletto’s that deform the human foot; just not sure what it is.

https://www.thelist.com/33317/real-reasons-women-wear-heels/

“Imagine going into work one day, confident in your chinos and ballet flats, only to be asked by your employer to leave and come back with heels — or just leave.”

https://footwearnews.com/2019/fashion/collaborations/miss-usa-pageant-shoes-lauren-lorraine-1202743103/

 

 

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
Total Posts:  3468
Joined  21-10-2016
 
 
 
23 July 2019 12:11
 
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:45 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

Yup, the basic psychology of language ... and common courtesy.

It’s not TERMS that certain people like to throw around and use to dismiss or discredit, it’s INSULTS.  In my opinion, much of today’s political discord could be remedied by better chosen words.

 

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
Total Posts:  7135
Joined  15-02-2007
 
 
 
23 July 2019 12:38
 
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:57 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:49 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:48 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:45 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

Hmmm, I thought we were talking about terms for extremists.

Where did that stipulation get specified?

Also lets be clear:
Extremist Alt-Righters run people over with cars and go to jail for it.
Extremist lefties toss milkshakes on people.

Do you not see a difference in scope here?

what’s got your knickers in a twist?

Haha!  Who said anything about my knickers being in a twist? 

icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:57 AM

Mine was just a continuation of JBs post using “snowflake” and your response. My two related questions were sincere:

Can we agree on a term for folks who are extreme leftists?
Can a person even be “too far left”?

I think a person CAN be too far left, for example any call to censor speech to avoid offensive strikes me as too far left.

Why do we need a different term than extreme leftists? And why shoulder the burden of a politically loaded term like snowflake?
A person can be too far anything.  Even ‘free speech absolutism’ can be tyrannical at times, if used by hate groups to forward destructive and/or harmful rhetoric.  Not every position deserves a platform.  And all speech should not be consequence-free.

[ Edited: 23 July 2019 12:40 by Jefe]
 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
Total Posts:  7708
Joined  22-02-2014
 
 
 
23 July 2019 12:44
 
Jefe - 23 July 2019 12:38 PM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:57 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:49 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:48 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:45 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

Hmmm, I thought we were talking about terms for extremists.

Where did that stipulation get specified?

Also lets be clear:
Extremist Alt-Righters run people over with cars and go to jail for it.
Extremist lefties toss milkshakes on people.

Do you not see a difference in scope here?

what’s got your knickers in a twist?

Haha!  Who said anything about my knickers being in a twist? 

icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:57 AM

Mine was just a continuation of JBs post using “snowflake” and your response. My two related questions were sincere:

Can we agree on a term for folks who are extreme leftists?
Can a person even be “too far left”?

I think a person CAN be too far left, for example any call to censor speech to avoid offensive strikes me as too far left.

Why do we need a different term than extreme leftists? And why shoulder the burden of a politically loaded term like snowflake?
A person can be too far anything.  Even ‘free speech absolutism’ can be tyrannical at times, if used by hate groups to forward destructive and/or harmful rhetoric.  Not every position deserves a platform.  And all speech should not be consequence-free.

So “alt-right” is in bounds but “snowflake” is burdensome. Why is that? A cynic might conclude that you’ve a bit of a bias smile

 

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
Total Posts:  7135
Joined  15-02-2007
 
 
 
23 July 2019 13:18
 
icehorse - 23 July 2019 12:44 PM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 12:38 PM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:57 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:49 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:48 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:45 AM
icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:37 AM
Jefe - 23 July 2019 11:33 AM
Jb8989 - 23 July 2019 10:09 AM

...snowflakes ...

Use of right-wing/alt-right jargon/slang - Thumbs-up!  Definitely going to capture hearts and minds using this kind of terminology.

What term should be used for those on the far left? Or perhaps the argument is “there’s no such thing as too far left”?

If you got “there’s no such thing as too far left” from my comment, you are not paying very much attention to my positions on various issues - something I find quite unsurprising.

As for ‘what should we refer to (insert demographic of choice here) as’, I’d say a term loaded with negative connotations and often used in a derogatory manner in political discussions is a good choice if you don’t particularly care how your comments or positions are received by those inside (insert chosen demographic here) or those who may be neutral or centrist on the position in question.

It’s basic psychology of language…

Hmmm, I thought we were talking about terms for extremists.

Where did that stipulation get specified?

Also lets be clear:
Extremist Alt-Righters run people over with cars and go to jail for it.
Extremist lefties toss milkshakes on people.

Do you not see a difference in scope here?

what’s got your knickers in a twist?

Haha!  Who said anything about my knickers being in a twist? 

icehorse - 23 July 2019 11:57 AM

Mine was just a continuation of JBs post using “snowflake” and your response. My two related questions were sincere:

Can we agree on a term for folks who are extreme leftists?
Can a person even be “too far left”?

I think a person CAN be too far left, for example any call to censor speech to avoid offensive strikes me as too far left.

Why do we need a different term than extreme leftists? And why shoulder the burden of a politically loaded term like snowflake?
A person can be too far anything.  Even ‘free speech absolutism’ can be tyrannical at times, if used by hate groups to forward destructive and/or harmful rhetoric.  Not every position deserves a platform.  And all speech should not be consequence-free.

So “alt-right” is in bounds but “snowflake” is burdensome. Why is that? A cynic might conclude that you’ve a bit of a bias smile

Does alt-right have the same derogatory connotation and snowflake?

In 2010, the American white nationalist Richard B. Spencer launched The Alternative Right webzine to disseminate his ideas.

The movement collectively known as alt-right coined the term for themselves?  Not sure where you’re going here…

Snowflake, otoh, is a derogatory term sourced from ‘Fight Club’ used to denigrate a demographic of people thought to be ‘overly-easily offended’ and/or ‘too delicate for modern reality’.  Still used as such today.

Further, who said anything about in/out-of-bounds?  ...or is that you projecting again?

[ Edited: 23 July 2019 13:23 by Jefe]
 
 
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