Athiests Toolbox :- Noah’s Ark

Total Posts:  15
Joined  11-07-2019
30 July 2019 09:01

NOAH’s Improbable Ark III
In an Atheist tool box there is probably no better rebuttal than to Noah’s Ark not because it is so obviously a ludicrous tale or parable for the common Christian sin/retribution/(re-birth-baptism)/salvation theme but because it spans both New and Old testament.  Due to the “ A La Carte” nature of Christian belief and wider variance in fervor with which it is held, there needs to be a wider and matching rebuttal.  The following are some of the categories of believers you may encounter:-

1. Fundamentalists:- Inerrant word of God
2. Parablists:- used to convey a message from God. (human interpretation of Gods message)
3. Misintrepretists:-  fact and fiction merge to become a narrative of biblical account.
4. Segregationalists :- The Old Testament was surpassed by the New Testament.
It is essential to gauge the tenor in which Noah’s Improbable Ark is held.  The above categories may help, there are many more.  To help you establish and give direction the following questions should be used to corral the believer and create boundaries to cut-off escape routes.  To force believers with their own rationale to confront their own beliefs is the only way to induce change in mind set.

1. Fundamentalist:- Inerrant word of God

The biggest challenge as they do not have the rationale to appeal to, nor the will to question their own beliefs.  However, you can Endeavour to put a few dents in their beliefs.
• Was it moral to kill all living things?  (across all 7 continents) Genesis 6:7
(Genesis 7:17 and every thing that is in the earth shall die.)
• Why is there no recorded history of Yahweh/Jehovah/Flood outside of the middle East in 4000 to 2300 BCE (Creation to Flood)
• Were the other 6 continents warned of the impending doom?
• Have the moral standards changed since Genesis to today? Why?
• Did Noah build the Ark in 7 days? Genesis 7:4 (For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.)

• Who collected all the animals/birds/creepy things across 7 continents and put them back to their unique habitats.
• Who restored all the tidal creatures that were killed by the sea level pressure of 9000 psi when the waters rose to 15 cubits above Mt Everest.  Genesis 7:20 (Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.)
• How did hundreds of thousands if not millions of species survive onboard the Ark for 190 to 300 days.
• Who ran the breeding programs for all the creatures who have a lifespan less than 190 - 300 days.
• What did the animals/fowl/creepy things live on after the flood. All vegetation has been underwater 190 - 300 days and dead.

• How did Noah “Gather” all the unique foods required to sustain all the animals etc Genesis 6:21 (And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.)  Koala Bears that only eat Eucalyptus leaves and die without them. (tens of thousands of unique foods (fresh) would have been necessary to sustain life.)

• How do you reconcile (fish eating only) animals with 190 - 300 days onboard the Ark.
• The rain, salt water or fresh water fish,  which one would survive with another 29,000 feet of water dumped on top of the earth.  (Both cannot survive in reverse environments so was it salt water rain or freshwater rain?)
• How was the food chain re-established after the flood (predators/prey/herbivore) Genesis 7:4 (and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth)

• If the story is told as the inerrant word of GOD in human/laws of nature terms why can it not be verified in those same terms?
• Why is there no record of Gods hand in anything to do with Noah’s Ark other than command to build, rain and removal of water.
• Where did the rain come from and go to (when the wind blew it away)
• Why do you have no belief in evolution before the Adam/Eve/flood but an accelerated evolution to propagate the earth after the flood. (You had to have every species and its variants in the Ark or accelerated evolution to produce every breed after the Ark (e.g. 2 dogs in the Ark and now very breed known to man in 6000 years)
• Do you believe in DNA and the spread of mankind (traceable) out of Africa and not through the narrow corridor of 3 breeding couples post flood.
• Do you believe in carbon dating / paleontology/ evolutionary biology and its current disparity with the flood narrative.

• Do you believe that 3 breeding couples that carried every human parasite/genetic defect/ fatal disease/disease/disability that could not exist outside the human body were the foundation for today’s population.

• Why did omnipotent God create a human narrative to explain   Christian sin/retribution/(water cleansing re-birth-baptism)/salvation   and not just “click his omnipotent fingers” and remove the sinners instead of destroying the world.

• Why did Omnipotent God create Man in his image who failed his quality assurance test and have to do a recall and start again. Genesis 6:7

• How does the flood narrative in the (Barbaric) old Testament traverse to the (ever loving)New testament. Mathew 24:39 – Luke17:26-27 – Hebrews 11:7 – 1 Peter 3:19 – 2 Peter 2:5 – 2 Peter 3:5. (this one is especially harsh on the Segregationalists)

• Why was there no warning of impending doom? Matthew 24:39
• How does destroy everything for their wickedness fit with unborn children, evangelists and pro-live today.

Are you getting board with the tedium and ludicrous nature of this biblical narrative?  Do you think of the author of Genesis and the “fit” of this narrative to the intended audience?  Beware false prophets that would have you think that iron age tribal desert dwellers would succumb to such rhetoric that is beneath the cognitive dignity of enlightened modern day man.  There are plenty around today that still believe this and worse (scientology/ flat earthers/ conspiracy theorists)

We must, however, acknowledge, as it seems to me, that man with all his noble qualities… still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin. :- Charles Darwin

There is some flaw that burdens the progress of mankind and religion exploits it.  I would coin a phrase:-  Cognitive Process Deficit Disorder (CPDD) a Phd will not inoculate against this defect.  Perhaps Sam or Prof Jordan Peterson are better suited to define how rationality can be overcome by superstition.  Human frailty manifests itself in fear of death and in this fertile ground the seeds of religious redemption and eternal life are planted, unfortunately what grows is just a noxious weed. 

Enough for now, more to follow (its getting too long to quote)

Next:- Parablists:- used to convey a message from God. (human interpretation of Gods message)

Input and contributions welcome.

[ Edited: 02 August 2019 02:31 by Balfizar1]
Total Posts:  15
Joined  11-07-2019
31 July 2019 08:04

2   Parablists:- used to convey a message from God. (Human interpretation of Gods message)
The instant that they concede that Noah’s Ark is a human interpretation then where does it stop in the bible! If its not divine revelation then it is just another story.  However, the morality and implications of the story as an interpretation of account and guidance to Gods will still need questioning.
• Why will God not do this again if we are all wicked? 
Genesis 8:21 “ neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.”
Genesis 9:11” And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
• Does that mean we can be wicked again without fear of another flood?
• Did God say “neither will I again smite” or was it a human interpretation?
• Is it moral to kill every living thing on the earth?
• What does that say about God?
• Should we adopt the moral teaching of the Old Testament?
• Has secular law, human rights, modern morality and decorum usurped the moral teachings of the bible?

God runs a quality assurance test on man who he made in his image Genesis 5:1 which fails with Adam in the garden of Eden.  God resets and runs the quality assurance test again for 1700 years and all but Noah and his immediate family fail Genesis 6:7.  God is disappointed and in a rage destroys all not in the Ark Genesis 6:13.  Resets and runs Quality assurance test again.  This time with a vetted Tier 1 quality product Noah’s family.  Genesis 6:9.  God announces new quality product and goes into mass production. Genesis 9:1.  God announces new quality product and assures no recall will be forthcoming. Genesis 9:1

• Why was God sorry (repenteth) Genesis 6:7 for the multiple failures of his own creation.
• Did omnipotent God not know of the multiple failures and those to come?  Genesis 19:13(Sodom and Gomorrah and two neighboring cities, which were consumed by fire and brimstone) Note:- nice touch here, local scale and multi tasking fire and brimstone – No water used.

Total Posts:  15
Joined  11-07-2019
17 August 2019 05:10

3. Misintrepretists:-  fact and fiction merge to become a narrative of biblical account.
Misintrepretists:- claim that divine revelation wasn’t dictation to scripture but a message that inspired a cultural narrative interpreted and recorded by scribes.  The human factor in the scripture leads to the misinterpretation both by scribes and readers.  You are getting it wrong if you don’t take this into account.  Facts embellished with imagination to create a culturally acceptable “fit” to the prevailing culture and enhance acceptance. 
Rationality alone cannot comprehend the events given in the Bible, especially if the reader has consumed 5 or 6 shots of the Holy Spirit before feeding his or her confirmation bias with further readings of scripture, which results in a “Christian interpretation” and quite often a personal interpretation.  The Rev. Al Sharpton comes to mind as a personal interpreter. 
“ the only interpretation of the bible relevant to me is my interpretation”  or to put it more succinctly my ignorance and bias is all I need to fulfill my Christian existence.  Wherever there is contention between old and new testament or modern morality or science I choose to ignore it.

The following amongst many deed to be ignored.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Bible quotation of the week:-
Leviticus 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads.
Does that quotation make Dan Aykroyd a prophet?    Coneheads 1993 ? Comedy/Sci-fi movie   Cone-headed extraterrestrials Beldar

Total Posts:  15
Joined  11-07-2019
24 August 2019 04:31

4   Segregationalists :- The Old Testament was surpassed by the New Testament.

To put it more succinctly, the old covenant is replaced by the new covenant. For the segregationalists to believe this they would have to deny the following verses in the new testament.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Matthew 5:18   For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

That does not leave much wriggle room,  but apologists are masterful worms.  As noted Noah is bountiful in the new testament as follows:-

Mathew 24:39 – And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke17:26-27 – And as it was in the days of Noe(Ed – Noah), so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Hebrews 11:7 – By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

1 Peter 3:20 – Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2:5 – And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2 Peter 3:5 - For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Peter 3:5 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Segregationalists are denying that the scriptures are one in unity the word of God.  The new testament confirms this.  Cherry pickers at best and apologists at worst.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

There is no room for a personal interpretation,  only the fundamentalists have it right according to the bible.  However, they have backed themselves into an indefensible corner.

Noah’s Improbable Ark,  it has both the scientific and morally vulnerable undertones.