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El Paso

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
Total Posts:  3468
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04 August 2019 16:56
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 04:33 PM
Jan_CAN - 04 August 2019 11:06 AM
EN - 04 August 2019 10:17 AM

Australia is a model for action.

And New Zealand

Not so fast: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand’s Gun Control Scheme

Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand’s government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

Officials should have seen it coming.

“Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won’t surrender them,” Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.

So, what should they do now? Send the storm troopers in to people’s houses to take their guns by force? The cure is worse than the disease.

No, but no one said it would be easy; changes were needed and have to start somewhere.  Changes in attitude take longer.

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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04 August 2019 17:03
 

A big part of the problem with these young, white, racist, murderers is that they see themselves as “heroes” protecting America. There are plenty of Alt-Right crackpots who see them this way as well; including some who would like to copy this sick behavior.  They see dark skinned people as diluting the “pure white race,” and destroying American culture with it.

If the news media, law enforcement and culture at large started labeling these guys as “terrorists,” which is exactly what they are, their delusional self image as “heroes” would get knocked down several pegs. There’s nothing heroic about being a terrorist. Perhaps this increasing trend of mass murder would decline as a result.

 
 
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04 August 2019 20:51
 
Cheshire Cat - 04 August 2019 05:03 PM

A big part of the problem with these young, white, racist, murderers is that they see themselves as “heroes” protecting America. There are plenty of Alt-Right crackpots who see them this way as well; including some who would like to copy this sick behavior.  They see dark skinned people as diluting the “pure white race,” and destroying American culture with it.

If the news media, law enforcement and culture at large started labeling these guys as “terrorists,” which is exactly what they are, their delusional self image as “heroes” would get knocked down several pegs. There’s nothing heroic about being a terrorist. Perhaps this increasing trend of mass murder would decline as a result.

Where do you think they get the idea they are heroes?  Does, “. . . you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides,” ring a bell? 

How about, “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best.  They’re sending people that have lots of problems…they’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

How about Fox News and their daily barrage of whites being victims of brown immigrants?

Racists have, and will always, be with us, but when the president and a major cable network validate them on a regular basis, and the president’s political party is silent, then violence of this sort is encouraged with a wink and a nod, followed by feigned shock and disgust when it happens, and no one is fooled.

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04 August 2019 20:57
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 04:33 PM
Jan_CAN - 04 August 2019 11:06 AM
EN - 04 August 2019 10:17 AM

Australia is a model for action.

And New Zealand

Not so fast: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand’s Gun Control Scheme

Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand’s government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

Officials should have seen it coming.

“Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won’t surrender them,” Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.

So, what should they do now? Send the storm troopers in to people’s houses to take their guns by force? The cure is worse than the disease.

So much for “law abiding gun owner” when following the law is a matter of convenience.

There need not be a forceful round up of guns, but the moment they are caught with one illegally they should not expect the police to not enforce the law.  Your post also reinforces the image that gun owners will violently resist the law if they are on the wrong side of it.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
Total Posts:  6830
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04 August 2019 21:38
 
Skipshot - 04 August 2019 08:57 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 04:33 PM
Jan_CAN - 04 August 2019 11:06 AM
EN - 04 August 2019 10:17 AM

Australia is a model for action.

And New Zealand

Not so fast: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand’s Gun Control Scheme

Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand’s government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

Officials should have seen it coming.

“Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won’t surrender them,” Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.

So, what should they do now? Send the storm troopers in to people’s houses to take their guns by force? The cure is worse than the disease.

So much for “law abiding gun owner” when following the law is a matter of convenience.

There need not be a forceful round up of guns, but the moment they are caught with one illegally they should not expect the police to not enforce the law.  Your post also reinforces the image that gun owners will violently resist the law if they are on the wrong side of it.

When the law is unconstitutional, citizens have a right and a duty to disobey it. That said, New Zealand doesn’t even have a constitution, not a real one. Too bad for them.

 
 
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04 August 2019 21:44
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 09:38 PM

When the law is unconstitutional, citizens have a right and a duty to disobey it.

Who has the authority to decide if a law is unconstitutional, in your scenario?

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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04 August 2019 21:53
 

Ohio gunman described himself as pro-Satan ‘leftist’ who supported Elizabeth Warren

The Ohio gunman described himself on social media as a pro-Satan “leftist” who wanted Joe Biden’s generation to die off, hated President Trump and law enforcement, and hoped to vote for Sen. Elizabeth Warren for president.

In the early hours of Sunday morning, rifle-wielding Connor Betts rampaged through a Dayton entertainment district, killing his sister and eight other people and leaving dozens of others wounded before police killed him.

“I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding,” he wrote in one tweet, according to Heavy.com.

But again, the idea that we should blame a political ideology, or a politician (in this case, Elizabeth Warren) for the actions of a lunatic is just plain stupid.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
Total Posts:  3468
Joined  21-10-2016
 
 
 
04 August 2019 23:48
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 09:38 PM
Skipshot - 04 August 2019 08:57 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 04:33 PM
Jan_CAN - 04 August 2019 11:06 AM
EN - 04 August 2019 10:17 AM

Australia is a model for action.

And New Zealand

Not so fast: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand’s Gun Control Scheme

Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand’s government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

Officials should have seen it coming.

“Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won’t surrender them,” Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.

So, what should they do now? Send the storm troopers in to people’s houses to take their guns by force? The cure is worse than the disease.

So much for “law abiding gun owner” when following the law is a matter of convenience.

There need not be a forceful round up of guns, but the moment they are caught with one illegally they should not expect the police to not enforce the law.  Your post also reinforces the image that gun owners will violently resist the law if they are on the wrong side of it.

When the law is unconstitutional, citizens have a right and a duty to disobey it. That said, New Zealand doesn’t even have a constitution, not a real one. Too bad for them.

New Zealand has a constitution, a constitution that can evolve to meet the needs of today’s citizens and address current issues.  They also have a Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, who demonstrates reasoned leadership and integrity.  Unlike some other countries whose electoral processes and systems of government result in the opposite.  Too bad for them.

This thread is about the horrors caused by a hate-filled racist with access to weapons.  There have been numerous polls indicating that the majority of Americans support tougher gun controls.  In a democracy, should the NRA types overrule the majority of the people?

 

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
Total Posts:  2874
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05 August 2019 04:09
 

Making the fight against White Nationalist Terrorism a thing would allow Law Enforcement to monitor possibly attackers and intervene before people die.

 
 
mapadofu
 
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mapadofu
Total Posts:  733
Joined  20-07-2017
 
 
 
05 August 2019 06:15
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 09:53 PM

Ohio gunman described himself as pro-Satan ‘leftist’ who supported Elizabeth Warren

The Ohio gunman described himself on social media as a pro-Satan “leftist” who wanted Joe Biden’s generation to die off, hated President Trump and law enforcement, and hoped to vote for Sen. Elizabeth Warren for president.

In the early hours of Sunday morning, rifle-wielding Connor Betts rampaged through a Dayton entertainment district, killing his sister and eight other people and leaving dozens of others wounded before police killed him.

“I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding,” he wrote in one tweet, according to Heavy.com.

But again, the idea that we should blame a political ideology, or a politician (in this case, Elizabeth Warren) for the actions of a lunatic is just plain stupid.

No it’s not.  The political ideology of kowtowing to the NRA has prevented us from taking steps towards additional sensible gun regulations. 

Bad ideologies lead to bad policies which leads to bad societal outcomes.

[ Edited: 05 August 2019 06:19 by mapadofu]
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
Total Posts:  3369
Joined  26-03-2013
 
 
 
05 August 2019 07:07
 

I think every American kid should get a handgun and an open carry permit when they turn eighteen.  Just to level the playing field.  The guns are already out there.  It’s like Climate Change.  It’s already too late.

 
 
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05 August 2019 07:46
 
LadyJane - 05 August 2019 07:07 AM

I think every American kid should get a handgun and an open carry permit when they turn eighteen.  Just to level the playing field..

If we want the law changed then limit the issue of weapons to minorities only and watch how fast white America changes its gun laws.

As our Canadian representative on the forum, can you explain how your country deals with a disarmed citizenry?  Is there constant chaos as law-ignoring, gun-toting criminals rule your country?  I am referencing the canard from the gun-rights group, “If guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have guns.”

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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05 August 2019 08:06
 
Skipshot - 05 August 2019 07:46 AM
LadyJane - 05 August 2019 07:07 AM

I think every American kid should get a handgun and an open carry permit when they turn eighteen.  Just to level the playing field..

If we want the law changed then limit the issue of weapons to minorities only and watch how fast white America changes its gun laws.

As our Canadian representative on the forum, can you explain how your country deals with a disarmed citizenry?  Is there constant chaos as law-ignoring, gun-toting criminals rule your country?  I am referencing the canard from the gun-rights group, “If guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have guns.”

We have about as many guns per capita as you folks believe it or not.  The vast majority are just rifles and shotguns.  Assault type weaponry is basically non existent and hand guns are hard to procure without justification.

Our primary method of self defence relies on disarming the enemy with humour.  It’s usually enough to keep the peace.

 
 
mapadofu
 
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mapadofu
Total Posts:  733
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05 August 2019 08:10
 

Another thought on ASD’s comment.  I find it ironic that his(?) post on the /Sam Harris/ forum expresses the view that we can’t or shouldn’t look into how ideology influences behavior.

 
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05 August 2019 08:15
 
Jan_CAN - 04 August 2019 04:56 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 04 August 2019 04:33 PM
Jan_CAN - 04 August 2019 11:06 AM
EN - 04 August 2019 10:17 AM

Australia is a model for action.

And New Zealand

Not so fast: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand’s Gun Control Scheme

Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand’s government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

Officials should have seen it coming.

“Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won’t surrender them,” Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.

So, what should they do now? Send the storm troopers in to people’s houses to take their guns by force? The cure is worse than the disease.

No, but no one said it would be easy; changes were needed and have to start somewhere.  Changes in attitude take longer.

Here is another article about New Zealand’s change to its gun laws:  https://dailycaller.com/2019/07/09/gun-control-new-zealand/

About 1,000 guns estimated to qualify as prohibited have reportedly been turned over to New Zealand authorities as part of the country’s gun buyback program as of July 4, according to Radio New Zealand.


Out of 1.2 to 1.5 million guns in New Zealand, the government said an estimated 13,500 firearms are military style semi-automatics, reported Reuters.

Gun owners have an amnesty period until Dec. 20 to turn them in for government compensation of up to 95% of their value. . .

Wait until at least the end of the amnesty period before declaring the law a failure.  Maybe extend the waiting until all hell breaks loose when a large majority of gun owners kill police who try to enforce the law, or armed criminals take over a disarmed country, or New Zealand changes from a democratic republic to a dictatorship because its stupid citizens gave up the weapons which protected themselves from tyranny.

 
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