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El Paso

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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05 August 2019 15:41
 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/death-toll-rises-22-el-paso-shooting-victims/story?id=64780680

Sadly, the death toll has risen even higher and is now 22.

At this morning’s news conference, Trump tried to convince the world that he has a soul.  He failed.

 
 
Celal
 
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Celal
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05 August 2019 18:27
 
Celal - 04 August 2019 01:58 PM

The people who pulled the triggers are responsible. The question is how and why they have come to that point of total indifference to any human life. What contributes to it?

This may be the answer I was looking for.

This is exactly what you get in a culture where anything goes and nothing matters. Extract all the meaning and purpose from being here on earth… and erase as many boundaries as you can from custom and behavior, and watch what happens, especially among young men.” -  James Howard Kunstler

 

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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05 August 2019 18:43
 
LadyJane - 05 August 2019 08:06 AM

We have about as many guns per capita as you folks believe it or not.

Better double check your numbers. Per capita gun ownership in the US and Canada respectively is 120.5 and 34.7 per 100 people, according to Wikipedia.

Perhaps a more relevant statistic is the percentage of households that own at least one gun: 48.55% for the US and 21.84% for Canada (although the US figure seems high; there’s no date on the source data, and I’ve read in other sources that it’s closer to 1/3 now).

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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05 August 2019 18:53
 
Celal - 05 August 2019 06:27 PM
Celal - 04 August 2019 01:58 PM

The people who pulled the triggers are responsible. The question is how and why they have come to that point of total indifference to any human life. What contributes to it?

This may be the answer I was looking for.

This is exactly what you get in a culture where anything goes and nothing matters. Extract all the meaning and purpose from being here on earth… and erase as many boundaries as you can from custom and behavior, and watch what happens, especially among young men.” -  James Howard Kunstler

Here’s a link to the rest of the “Clusterfuck Nation” blog: Hold the Teddy Bears and Candles
I’d say that’s part of the problem.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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05 August 2019 19:04
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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05 August 2019 19:17
 

And nothing will be done.  The news will die down.  Gun sales will increase because more people will have the fear of an attack and think arming themselves is the solution.  Gun nuts will scream, “I’ll kill anyone who comes for my gun!” and the people will fear and appease the gun nut.  Then another horrible shooting, and repeat.

America has the best mass shootings, and we have them anywhere at any time - churches, schools, movie theaters, malls, concerts, political rallies, protest rallies, office buildings, post offices, work places.  You name it, it has had a mass shooting.  Cops are trigger happy because they fear everyone has a gun and will use it first, so they are likely to draw their weapon at the hint their life is in danger.

So everyone is afraid of everyone because everyone is assumed to be armed and dangerous.  Americans don’t want to be disarmed because they know the guy who did not give up his gun will become an evil-doer and use it to take everything you own.  Fear rules American thought.  Fear of others, fear of immigrants, fear of socialists, fear of the government, and apathy to do anything about it except curl up with a gun.  Then politicians capitalize on that fear to pillage the fearfuls’ wallet.  What a shame.

“For what it’s worth” hits American fear on the head 52 years later and is still going strong:  https://youtu.be/gp5JCrSXkJY

[ Edited: 06 August 2019 18:16 by Skipshot]
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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05 August 2019 19:32
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 05 August 2019 07:04 PM

Ted Cruz cooks bacon with a “machine gun.”

Classic!

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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05 August 2019 21:07
 

Here’s another wonderful effect from having more guns than any other industrialized nation: A skyrocketing rate of suicide by firearm.

The U.S. firearm suicide rate is eight times that of other high-income countries.

Claiming the lives of nearly 22,000 Americans every year, including over 950 children and teens, firearm suicide is a significant public health crisis in the U.S.

Nearly two-thirds of all gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides: an average of 59 deaths a day.

Men represent 86 percent of firearm suicide victims, and are over six times more likely than women to die by firearm suicide.
For men, firearm suicide rates largely increase with age, and are especially high for male senior citizens (65 and older).

For women, firearm suicide rates are highest in the 45 to 60 age range.

White Americans represent 87 percent of all firearm suicide victims, and have the highest rate of firearm suicide by race.

American Indians and Alaska Natives also have a disproportionately high rate of firearm suicide.

Americans living in rural areas experience higher rates of firearm suicide than those living in urban areas. The average firearm suicide rate increases as counties become more rural, and the rate of firearm suicide in the most rural counties is over two times higher than in the most urban.

https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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06 August 2019 08:47
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 05 August 2019 06:43 PM
LadyJane - 05 August 2019 08:06 AM

We have about as many guns per capita as you folks believe it or not.

Better double check your numbers. Per capita gun ownership in the US and Canada respectively is 120.5 and 34.7 per 100 people, according to Wikipedia.

Perhaps a more relevant statistic is the percentage of households that own at least one gun: 48.55% for the US and 21.84% for Canada (although the US figure seems high; there’s no date on the source data, and I’ve read in other sources that it’s closer to 1/3 now).

I must’ve been hearkening back to Michael Moore’s documentary.  I guess with those numbers you’re right on target.  Congrats!

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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06 August 2019 23:23
 

If a Wal Mart full of Texans can’t stop a mass murderer, then what is the point of everyone having a gun for protection?

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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07 August 2019 08:36
 

That theory doesn’t pan out so hopefully that’s an indication most Americans are all bark and no bite.

What I don’t get is the idea of a Mental Health Registry.  That sounds like a colossal violation of privacy.  Specifying the extent of a person’s mental state on a spectrum of that magnitude is quite the leap.  Is someone temporarily suffering from depression, after a death in the family, on the same registry as someone with paranoid schizophrenia?  Is there a difference between disease and disorder?  That’s like the sex offender list where a pedophile is on the same list as some drunk guy caught urinating in the park.  I think dropping a net that wide will discourage people from getting the help they need.  And possibly lead to more trouble.

Is having Red Flag Laws in a country that prides itself on freedom not itself a bit of a red flag?

 
 
TwoSeven1
 
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TwoSeven1
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07 August 2019 09:44
 
Skipshot - 06 August 2019 11:23 PM

If a Wal Mart full of Texans can’t stop a mass murderer, then what is the point of everyone having a gun for protection?

What is your assumption?

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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07 August 2019 10:36
 
LadyJane - 07 August 2019 08:36 AM

...
What I don’t get is the idea of a Mental Health Registry.  That sounds like a colossal violation of privacy.  Specifying the extent of a person’s mental state on a spectrum of that magnitude is quite the leap.  Is someone temporarily suffering from depression, after a death in the family, on the same registry as someone with paranoid schizophrenia?  Is there a difference between disease and disorder?  That’s like the sex offender list where a pedophile is on the same list as some drunk guy caught urinating in the park.  I think dropping a net that wide will discourage people from getting the help they need.  And possibly lead to more trouble.

Is having Red Flag Laws in a country that prides itself on freedom not itself a bit of a red flag?

Yes, the idea of a Mental Health Registry seems like a wide net that would intrude on rights of privacy, affect those who are no danger to anyone, and could discourage people from getting help.

Here in Canada, gun licenses require a background check that, in addition to criminal records, includes determining if a person has been treated for a mental illness that was associated with violence or attempted violence, or has a history of threatened or attempted violence.  Also, third-party character references are required.  But this information is provided only after the applicant applies for a gun permit so presumably they are then waiving their right to privacy of certain information.

Just as there is a mechanism that ensures that an epileptic may lose their driving license for the sake of public safety, it seems reasonable that, for example, a paranoid schizophrenic not be permitted to own weapons.  However, a generalized registry does not seem to be the right method, but a confidential reporting by physicians under specific criteria and through law enforcement records.

[ Edited: 07 August 2019 16:47 by Jan_CAN]
 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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07 August 2019 11:30
 

Are these the good years, when all we have to worry about are machine guns?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/20181210_National-Strategy-for-Countering-WMD-Terrorism.pdf

Several terrorist groups have made clear their desire to obtain WMD and use them against innocent people. Already we have seen ISIS use chemical weapons on Middle Eastern battlefields, and
there is little doubt they, and others like them, would gladly deploy WMD against the United States
if they could. To date, we have been spared such attacks because of the extraordinary efforts of
our military personnel, intelligence services, and law enforcement organizations. As the threat of
WMD terrorism continues to evolve, however, our defenses against it must evolve as well.
In particular, the spread of technologies that can be used for either peaceful or malicious purposes may give terrorists access to weapons that were once limited to a small handful of countries. While we harness science to generate energy and spread prosperity, terrorists would happily
deploy technology to sow death and destruction around the world. One of the great challenges of
our age is to place WMD and associated materials and expertise as far beyond the reach of these
madmen as possible.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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07 August 2019 22:58
 
LadyJane - 07 August 2019 08:36 AM

What I don’t get is the idea of a Mental Health Registry.

Don’t take the bait.  This is purely a diversion until the story dies down, because the cost in freedom and treasure is too much to ask.  Also, as mentioned earlier, declaring without evidence that mental health has a strong association with gun violence only stigmatizes mental health and discourages people to seek help.

The gun nuts will deflect blame from guns all day, and threaten those who don’t believe them.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment.

 
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