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Japan and immigration

 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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29 August 2019 06:55
 

From the most recent podcast, Sam considers Japan’s immigration policy but doesn’t elaborate much on what he thinks about it.  However, he does think it’s an interesting topic.  Is there anything wrong with Japan’s position?  I could see an argument being made about refugees, that they may have some moral obligation to help those from war torn areas or in dire circumstances.  That they have the ability to help, even if it’s only a fraction of what other countries are doing.  But is it wrong for them to say “We are Japan, we don’t want the Chinese here, we don’t want Europeans or Koreans here.  We want to preserve our culture and keep Japan for the Japanese.” ?

[ Edited: 29 August 2019 08:19 by DEGENERATEON]
 
EN
 
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EN
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29 August 2019 09:02
 

No, nothing is wrong with it, per se.  But any culture grows stagnant after a while.  Some immigration can revitalize it.  Cultures, like families, can become inbred.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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29 August 2019 09:46
 

Japan is in a bind, they have the lowest birth rates in the world I think and are headed for disaster, especially with no new people to pay for the old, so immigration is not what they want but they may be forced to need.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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29 August 2019 11:13
 
 
 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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29 August 2019 14:01
 

Seems like they could pay a price economically, but I don’t see anything wrong with it overall.  As a white supremacist talking point, I think it’s pretty irrelevant.  Unless the Japanese think they are superior to other races.  I guess my understanding is they want to keep their culture.

 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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30 August 2019 00:54
 

It’s a suicidal policy - Japan has no chance to stay competitive and innovative like this.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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30 August 2019 07:43
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan

Japan has historically been one of the world’s most generous donors to refugee relief and resettlement programs overseas.[14] In 2014 it was the world’s 2nd largest financial contributor to UNHCR programs.[15] Japanese diplomat Sadako Ogata served as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees from 1991-2000.

A 1999 review article of opinion polls show attitudes broadly neutral and actually less negative than other developed countries. In 1993 64% of respondents supported allowing firms facing labor shortages to hire unskilled foreign workers. [37] A 2017 poll by Gallup shows a similar attitude 30 years later, with Japan middling among developed countries in terms of public positivity towards immigration, ranking close to France, Belgium and Italy.


Are opinions here based on personal knowledge and/or facts, or on some off-hand and vague remarks made by Sam Harris?  Attitudes and policies regarding immigration are usually complex, and criticism of other countries, especially those with different histories and cultures than ours, might require in-depth knowledge in order to make fair judgments.

 

 
 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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30 August 2019 12:29
 
Jan_CAN - 30 August 2019 07:43 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan

Japan has historically been one of the world’s most generous donors to refugee relief and resettlement programs overseas.[14] In 2014 it was the world’s 2nd largest financial contributor to UNHCR programs.[15] Japanese diplomat Sadako Ogata served as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees from 1991-2000.

A 1999 review article of opinion polls show attitudes broadly neutral and actually less negative than other developed countries. In 1993 64% of respondents supported allowing firms facing labor shortages to hire unskilled foreign workers. [37] A 2017 poll by Gallup shows a similar attitude 30 years later, with Japan middling among developed countries in terms of public positivity towards immigration, ranking close to France, Belgium and Italy.


Are opinions here based on personal knowledge and/or facts, or on some off-hand and vague remarks made by Sam Harris?  Attitudes and policies regarding immigration are usually complex, and criticism of other countries, especially those with different histories and cultures than ours, might require in-depth knowledge in order to make fair judgments.

My question is philosophical and not intended to represent an in-depth knowledge of Japan’s immigration policy.  This is Sam Harris’s website, so vague remarks are fair game in my book.  Sam isn’t the only one who has brought this topic up, so I assumed that there is something to it.  The information above suggests that Japan donates quite a bit to refugee relief and the population doesn’t have a general negative view of immigrants.  But that’s different than the actual number of immigrants.  I wonder how Japans immigration numbers compare to other countries? 

That could be another interesting philosophical discussion- if a country donates very generously to refugees overseas but refrains from taking them into their own country.

 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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30 August 2019 12:39
 

From the same wiki article in Jan-cans post:

Whereas in Germany and Canada around 40% of asylum applications are approved, in Japan the number averages 0.2 per cent.

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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30 August 2019 13:24
 

In order to have a useful philosophical discussion, it must be based on at least a few facts; there weren’t any stated in the OP.  I’m not pretending to have much knowledge myself about this issue, but was cautioning that we shouldn’t make assumptions.

The comparative numbers regarding percentage of approved asylum applications is interesting, but there are factors which might also need to be considered, e.g. a country’s resources to take in a particular number of refugees.

 
 
mapadofu
 
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mapadofu
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30 August 2019 19:13
Celal
 
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Celal
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01 September 2019 16:00
 
DEGENERATEON - 29 August 2019 06:55 AM

From the most recent podcast, Sam considers Japan’s immigration policy but doesn’t elaborate much on what he thinks about it.  However, he does think it’s an interesting topic.  Is there anything wrong with Japan’s position?  I could see an argument being made about refugees, that they may have some moral obligation to help those from war torn areas or in dire circumstances.  That they have the ability to help, even if it’s only a fraction of what other countries are doing.  But is it wrong for them to say “We are Japan, we don’t want the Chinese here, we don’t want Europeans or Koreans here.  We want to preserve our culture and keep Japan for the Japanese.” ?

Japan can afford to be logical and limit immigration to low levels in order to “...  to preserve their culture.”  as explained to us by NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/upshot/comparing-immigration-policies-across-countries.html

Or as   National Geographic clarified that Japan’s policy was simply a matter of the Japanese preferring “a racially unique and homogenous society.”

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/6/130630-immigration-reform-world-refugees-asylum-canada-japan-australia-sweden-denmark-united-kingdom-undocumented-immigrants/

So, fortunately for the Japanese, they aren’t white. Otherwise,  their utterly logical, natural position on immigration would trigger “white nationalist” alarm bells in the leftist lame stream media.

 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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01 September 2019 18:48
 

It makes perfect sense for an Island nation such as Japan, to want to remain culturally and racially homogeneous. It has been this way for hundreds of years. But, as others have commented above, Japan may have no other choice, due to a declining birth rate, than to allow persons from other nations and races to immigrate.

The United States is a different story.

The American continent was inhabited by wandering, nomadic bands, who originally crossed over the Bering Strait from Asia during an Ice Age. They are the original “owners” of the American continent, including the portion of land we call the United States. Many of these indigenous, brown-skinned people formed advanced civilizations, as the archeological remains of the Inca, Aztec, Mayan and other cultures attest.

Then, of course, the Europeans arrived armed with their “Guns, Germs and Steel.” We all know the rest of that story.

I tend to agree with historian and podcaster, Dan Carlin, who takes the long term view. The European takeover of the Americas was a temporary phenomenon. The original brown-skinned people who were here from the beginning, are simply taking back what was theirs. They will continue to increase in numbers, assimilating into the existing American culture at large, but also changing it, in the same way every wave of immigrants has done.

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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01 September 2019 21:25
 

Japan’s progress and prosperity wouldn’t have happened without the meddling Europeans.

If you want to preserve your “ethinc identify”, you better be willing to preserve your medieval standard of living as well.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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02 September 2019 08:26
 
Twissel - 01 September 2019 09:25 PM

Japan’s progress and prosperity wouldn’t have happened without the meddling Europeans.

If you want to preserve your “ethinc identify”, you better be willing to preserve your medieval standard of living as well.

Meddling Europeans have often acted in self-interest, motivated by greed and with an attitude of superiority, with disdain for other peoples and cultures.  It’s time we stop thinking like colonialists.

No, a desire to preserve language and culture does not require a return to the past; all cultures evolve and need not do so according to western formulas.

 

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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03 September 2019 03:14
 

There are good ways and bad ways to preserve a cultural identity.
Nationalism and Isolationism are bad ones.

 
 
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