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Mass Shooting in America

 
burt
 
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burt
Total Posts:  15999
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
15 September 2019 22:57
 
Garret - 15 September 2019 07:51 PM
no_profundia - 15 September 2019 11:27 AM

Here is what I have found peculiar: It seems like the left often gets blamed for the right’s drift towards extremes. I saw someone on Twitter the other day make this statement about themselves: that the left’s PC culture was driving him to become more racist. And you see lots of think pieces where we are asked to try to understand those on the right - their economic plight and so on and their drift to the right as an understandable reaction to their situation.

I think this deserves it’s own thread, but i’ll give an unfulfilling short reply, and if it gets it’s own thread, we can do more.

We were a country based on racism and patriarchy.  The rules of those systems have largely disappeared, but the after effects will continue for generations (a rock falling in a pool creates waves, and then if we go and pull the rock out, we make even more waves).  Antiracist efforts like black power movements, BLM, civil rights, etc… and feminism have helped to redefine what it means to be black or female (and the same goes for other movements).  The problem right now is that our society has not simultaneously redefined what it is to be male or white (or the ‘norm’ that opposed other movements).  Capitalist forces have found that appealing to the previously held stereotypes of maleness and whiteness are good ways to market products, and so we have media forces that sell products to men that tell them the old version of maleness is within their grasp if they just buy the bigger truck, but that is a lie.  If we examine phenomenon like incels, it’s easy to see how young men are struggling with the cognitive dissonance of the old definitions and a world telling them that those definitions don’t apply any more.  Part of the struggle now is for white men to provide themselves with a new definition of themselves that just defines who they are without creating a hierarchy against other genders and races.  Feminists and non-white people can’t provide that definition for us though.  One, it isn’t their place.  Two, just like they don’t want white men defining them, it would be antithetical to the movement to turn around and do it in return.

There’s an identity crisis going on for part of our culture, and that segment of the culture is powerful.  Those who can direct it for their own ends can either do a lot of good, or a lot of harm.

The one thing I’d not agree with is the opening sentence: the US was not based on racism and patriarchy, those had been around long before. The contradiction was that the country was based on ideals that, if fully expressed and applied, were in contradiction with the existing social order. The past couple of centuries have seen attempts, mainly successful but many not yet fully or even partially realized, to expand the inclusiveness of the foundational ideals. These attempts are resisted by people who, for various reasons, give voice to the idealism while resisting its fuller realization. Thus, a form of covert hypocrisy on the one side and simmering (and sometimes explosive) anger on the other. Not to mention, of course, the fraction of the elite that cynically stokes the rightwing fires to increase their wealth. But, as the song goes, the times, they are a’changing.

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
Total Posts:  7138
Joined  15-02-2007
 
 
 
16 September 2019 00:31
 
no_profundia - 15 September 2019 11:27 AM

Here is what I have found peculiar: It seems like the left often gets blamed for the right’s drift towards extremes. I saw someone on Twitter the other day make this statement about themselves: that the left’s PC culture was driving him to become more racist. And you see lots of think pieces where we are asked to try to understand those on the right - their economic plight and so on and their drift to the right as an understandable reaction to their situation.

That’s the toxic argument of the abuser right there.

I wouldn’t have to hit you if you weren’t so damn disobedient.
I wouldn’t be so prejudiced if you weren’t so open to different folks.
I wouldn’t be so violent if you just treated me better.

Can’t buy it as a reasonable position.

 
 
Garret
 
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Garret
Total Posts:  666
Joined  16-01-2019
 
 
 
16 September 2019 05:50
 
burt - 15 September 2019 10:57 PM
Garret - 15 September 2019 07:51 PM
no_profundia - 15 September 2019 11:27 AM

Here is what I have found peculiar: It seems like the left often gets blamed for the right’s drift towards extremes. I saw someone on Twitter the other day make this statement about themselves: that the left’s PC culture was driving him to become more racist. And you see lots of think pieces where we are asked to try to understand those on the right - their economic plight and so on and their drift to the right as an understandable reaction to their situation.

I think this deserves it’s own thread, but i’ll give an unfulfilling short reply, and if it gets it’s own thread, we can do more.

We were a country based on racism and patriarchy.  The rules of those systems have largely disappeared, but the after effects will continue for generations (a rock falling in a pool creates waves, and then if we go and pull the rock out, we make even more waves).  Antiracist efforts like black power movements, BLM, civil rights, etc… and feminism have helped to redefine what it means to be black or female (and the same goes for other movements).  The problem right now is that our society has not simultaneously redefined what it is to be male or white (or the ‘norm’ that opposed other movements).  Capitalist forces have found that appealing to the previously held stereotypes of maleness and whiteness are good ways to market products, and so we have media forces that sell products to men that tell them the old version of maleness is within their grasp if they just buy the bigger truck, but that is a lie.  If we examine phenomenon like incels, it’s easy to see how young men are struggling with the cognitive dissonance of the old definitions and a world telling them that those definitions don’t apply any more.  Part of the struggle now is for white men to provide themselves with a new definition of themselves that just defines who they are without creating a hierarchy against other genders and races.  Feminists and non-white people can’t provide that definition for us though.  One, it isn’t their place.  Two, just like they don’t want white men defining them, it would be antithetical to the movement to turn around and do it in return.

There’s an identity crisis going on for part of our culture, and that segment of the culture is powerful.  Those who can direct it for their own ends can either do a lot of good, or a lot of harm.

The one thing I’d not agree with is the opening sentence: the US was not based on racism and patriarchy, those had been around long before. The contradiction was that the country was based on ideals that, if fully expressed and applied, were in contradiction with the existing social order. The past couple of centuries have seen attempts, mainly successful but many not yet fully or even partially realized, to expand the inclusiveness of the foundational ideals. These attempts are resisted by people who, for various reasons, give voice to the idealism while resisting its fuller realization. Thus, a form of covert hypocrisy on the one side and simmering (and sometimes explosive) anger on the other. Not to mention, of course, the fraction of the elite that cynically stokes the rightwing fires to increase their wealth. But, as the song goes, the times, they are a’changing.

I didn’t say we invented them.  Regardless, it’s a debate for a thread about such a topic, not a thread about gun violence.

 
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Total Posts:  9832
Joined  20-10-2006
 
 
 
16 September 2019 06:17
 
Jefe - 16 September 2019 12:31 AM
no_profundia - 15 September 2019 11:27 AM

Here is what I have found peculiar: It seems like the left often gets blamed for the right’s drift towards extremes. I saw someone on Twitter the other day make this statement about themselves: that the left’s PC culture was driving him to become more racist. And you see lots of think pieces where we are asked to try to understand those on the right - their economic plight and so on and their drift to the right as an understandable reaction to their situation.

That’s the toxic argument of the abuser right there.

I wouldn’t have to hit you if you weren’t so damn disobedient.
I wouldn’t be so prejudiced if you weren’t so open to different folks.
I wouldn’t be so violent if you just treated me better.

Can’t buy it as a reasonable position.

Good point.  Victim blaming is strong with the right.

 
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Skipshot
Total Posts:  9832
Joined  20-10-2006
 
 
 
19 September 2019 21:57
 

2,000,000 views of this YouTube video in two days; sponsored by Sandy Hook Promise.  School shootings are a great way to get famous and generate more gun sales.

https://youtu.be/b5ykNZl9mTQ

 
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