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Manual Transmission

 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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18 September 2019 08:12
 

I was having this discussion with a guy at work - he is going to get a new car and was saying he wanted a manual transmission.  Why would anyone want a manual transmission?  Do you want to use chop sticks?  Do you want an abacus instead of a laptop?  Why not have a washing rack outside to scrub your clothes clean?  When you put a hot dog in the microwave, do you yearn for some kind of crank to make it spin and cook?
His reply: “It’s enjoyable, I want to feel in-tune with the car.”
So why not have a wheel you can turn to operate the windshield wipers?  I don’t understand why moving a lever around and pumping your foot is enjoyable?  Why make things more difficult?!

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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18 September 2019 08:45
 

Indeed. It’s a guy fantasy that they are somehow a real man if they play with their stick while they drive. Statistically he will probably get cool rims and tires and modify the exhaust to make as much noise as possible, it’s like a two year old screaming for attention. When this is pointed out to such men the default response is that manuals get better mileage and they are saving the planet, but the statistics say most men can’t drive a stick well enough to get better mileage then an automatic, especially when they try and drive it like a race car, which is why they really bought it in the first place.

 
 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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18 September 2019 09:09
 
GAD - 18 September 2019 08:45 AM

Indeed. It’s a guy fantasy that they are somehow a real man if they play with their stick while they drive. Statistically he will probably get cool rims and tires and modify the exhaust to make as much noise as possible, it’s like a two year old screaming for attention. When this is pointed out to such men the default response is that manuals get better mileage and they are saving the planet, but the statistics say most men can’t drive a stick well enough to get better mileage then an automatic, especially when they try and drive it like a race car, which is why they really bought it in the first place.

Exactly - I think we’re on the same wavelength GAD.  I also compared it to having a loud motorcycle.  They have motorcycles that are not egregiously loud, and they perform just as well or better than their loud counterparts.  Why do you want it to be obnoxiously LOUD?!  Look at me!  Want me, love me, shower me with kisses!

His other argument was basically comparing it to microwaving a pre-made breakfast as opposed to the higher quality breakfast you could have if you actually cooked from scratch.  I can appreciate the extra effort you need to put in for a superior product, but what is the superior product with a manual? 

 

 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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18 September 2019 09:17
 

I used to enjoy micromanaging the connection between engine and wheels, but now that I’ve aged a bit, I appreciate automatic transmissions in cars. I’d also like to see automatics become common on motorcycles.

 
burt
 
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burt
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18 September 2019 09:19
 

You guys obviously don’t have a clue. Both I and my wife far prefer manual transmissions, have had them for years. The only thing that would get us to use an automatic would be, unfortunately, advancing age (currently driving a 2008 Acura TL-S with six speed manual). Automatics have gotten pretty good over the past decade, but still have some issues (e.g., as I noticed a couple of months ago when driving a new loaner car while mine was in for servicing): (1) take foot off of gas, you don’t get a direct disconnect from the engine, need to use brake much more; (2) No engine braking with a downshift; (3) noticeable time lag in automatic for acceleration from stop. And so on. For some people, driving is a way to get from A to B. For other people, it’s fun.

 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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18 September 2019 09:40
 
burt - 18 September 2019 09:19 AM

You guys obviously don’t have a clue. Both I and my wife far prefer manual transmissions, have had them for years. The only thing that would get us to use an automatic would be, unfortunately, advancing age (currently driving a 2008 Acura TL-S with six speed manual). Automatics have gotten pretty good over the past decade, but still have some issues (e.g., as I noticed a couple of months ago when driving a new loaner car while mine was in for servicing): (1) take foot off of gas, you don’t get a direct disconnect from the engine, need to use brake much more; (2) No engine braking with a downshift; (3) noticeable time lag in automatic for acceleration from stop. And so on. For some people, driving is a way to get from A to B. For other people, it’s fun.

It appears that you’re saying I can’t have fun driving an automatic?  Also you are describing some performance issues that may be specific to your loaner car, or may just be differences in the operation between manual/automatics that don’t really affect performance or even fuel economy to any significant degree.

 

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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18 September 2019 09:45
 

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

 
 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
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18 September 2019 09:51
 
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:45 AM

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

Because I think there’s something more to this argument.  It’s more than just “I like strawberry ice cream” and “I don’t”.  There’s something more to be said than just “it’s a choice”.  Maybe it’s not constructive, but I find it interesting.  Maybe I just like to argue.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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18 September 2019 09:56
 
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:45 AM

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

No, not really, AWD automatics with all their computer controls are simply better and safer then 99.99% of drivers, yet everyone thinks they are the 00.01% driver who is really good. Don’t take my word, look up the safety features and stats on “modern” cars.

As for why, like EN said, it’s for fun, it’s what we do here.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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18 September 2019 09:56
 
DEGENERATEON - 18 September 2019 09:51 AM
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:45 AM

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

Because I think there’s something more to this argument.  It’s more than just “I like strawberry ice cream” and “I don’t”.  There’s something more to be said than just “it’s a choice”.  Maybe it’s not constructive, but I find it interesting.  Maybe I just like to argue.

It is more than just a choice.  Manual Transmission gives a driver more control of their acceleration, deceleration, and rpm.
That control comes with the necessity to actively control your transmission while driving.  This is annoying (to me) in stop and go traffic - particularly at rush-hour, where an automatic transmission requires less attention and activity.  But for control in icy conditions, I would choose manual ever time.

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant to my choice.

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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18 September 2019 09:57
 
burt - 18 September 2019 09:19 AM

You guys obviously don’t have a clue. Both I and my wife far prefer manual transmissions, have had them for years. The only thing that would get us to use an automatic would be, unfortunately, advancing age (currently driving a 2008 Acura TL-S with six speed manual). Automatics have gotten pretty good over the past decade, but still have some issues (e.g., as I noticed a couple of months ago when driving a new loaner car while mine was in for servicing): (1) take foot off of gas, you don’t get a direct disconnect from the engine, need to use brake much more; (2) No engine braking with a downshift; (3) noticeable time lag in automatic for acceleration from stop. And so on. For some people, driving is a way to get from A to B. For other people, it’s fun.

The TL type S surprises me, Burt. I’d had you more pegged to an Infinity, seeing as how you’ve made your living. My car is from that era, too—a TSX which is sort of a watered-down version of your car. The automatic in my car allows for easy downshifts, which I use, especially when going down hills.

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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18 September 2019 09:58
 
GAD - 18 September 2019 09:56 AM
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:45 AM

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

No, not really, AWD automatics with all their computer controls are simply better and safer then 99.99% of drivers, yet everyone thinks they are the 00.01% driver who is really good. Don’t take my word, look up the safety features and stats on “modern” cars.

As for why, like EN said, it’s for fun, it’s what we do here.

I don’t believe I’m the safest 0.01% of drivers, but I’ll stand by my accident and ticket free record.
And I’ll still choose manual for greater control in icy conditions.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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18 September 2019 10:00
 
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:56 AM
DEGENERATEON - 18 September 2019 09:51 AM
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:45 AM

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

Because I think there’s something more to this argument.  It’s more than just “I like strawberry ice cream” and “I don’t”.  There’s something more to be said than just “it’s a choice”.  Maybe it’s not constructive, but I find it interesting.  Maybe I just like to argue.

It is more than just a choice.  Manual Transmission gives a driver more control of their acceleration, deceleration, and rpm.
That control comes with the necessity to actively control your transmission while driving.  This is annoying (to me) in stop and go traffic - particularly at rush-hour, where an automatic transmission requires less attention and activity.  But for control in icy conditions, I would choose manual ever time.

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant to my choice.

That is your view but it is not supported by any stats for modern cars with modern safety features. Electric cars have no transmission, are they bad, do we need to add a manual transmission to make them to be safe, of course not.

[ Edited: 18 September 2019 10:03 by GAD]
 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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18 September 2019 10:02
 
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:58 AM
GAD - 18 September 2019 09:56 AM
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:45 AM

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

No, not really, AWD automatics with all their computer controls are simply better and safer then 99.99% of drivers, yet everyone thinks they are the 00.01% driver who is really good. Don’t take my word, look up the safety features and stats on “modern” cars.

As for why, like EN said, it’s for fun, it’s what we do here.

I don’t believe I’m the safest 0.01% of drivers, but I’ll stand by my accident and ticket free record.
And I’ll still choose manual for greater control in icy conditions.

I’ll stand by my accident and ticket free record in automatics…Proof of nothing…Might as well be saying I’ll stick with my belief in god or alien anal probes…

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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18 September 2019 10:02
 

From Car Talk:

TOM: Myth 1: Manual transmissions get better mileage. While this certainly was true for a long time, today’s automatic transmissions pretty much match the mileage you can get with manual transmissions.

RAY: Older automatics had a lot of “slippage,” or inefficiency, built into them. But much of that is gone since there are now computer controls, lock-up torque converters and things like dual clutches. Some automatics now have six, seven, eight or even infinitely variable speeds, giving them an advantage in mileage over their manual counterparts.

TOM: Myth 2: A manual transmission gives you more control over your car. This usually refers to being able to employ engine braking by downshifting or delaying an upshift. But you know what? You can do those things with an automatic transmission, too. And many computer-controlled automatics now have a “manual mode” that allows you to shift up and down through the gears manually anyway. So, if you want to, you can still drive to Duluth in second gear and get seven miles per gallon.

RAY: Plus, with the widespread adoption of computerized safety enhancements such as stability control, traction control and anti-lock brakes, new cars are very well-controlled these days, no matter what kind of transmission you’re using.

Manual transmissions are cheaper and easier to repair. But they also have a clutch which has to be replaced periodically.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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18 September 2019 10:04
 
GAD - 18 September 2019 10:00 AM
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:56 AM
DEGENERATEON - 18 September 2019 09:51 AM
Jefe - 18 September 2019 09:45 AM

Standard = more control in icy conditions - something we deal with regularly in Canada.

Also, why beef about what some other driver chooses?  How is that constructive?

Because I think there’s something more to this argument.  It’s more than just “I like strawberry ice cream” and “I don’t”.  There’s something more to be said than just “it’s a choice”.  Maybe it’s not constructive, but I find it interesting.  Maybe I just like to argue.

It is more than just a choice.  Manual Transmission gives a driver more control of their acceleration, deceleration, and rpm.
That control comes with the necessity to actively control your transmission while driving.  This is annoying (to me) in stop and go traffic - particularly at rush-hour, where an automatic transmission requires less attention and activity.  But for control in icy conditions, I would choose manual ever time.

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant to my choice.

That is your view but it is not supported by any stats for modern cars with modern safety features. Electric cars have no transmission, are then bad, do we need to add a manual transmission to them to be safe, of course not.

You are conflating my choice with a good/bad statement, and then misapplying it to electric cars with no transmission.
I didn’t say one is bad, and one is good.  I sad one gives more control, and would choose it in specific conditions.

I haven’t driven an electric car, and thus have no opinion on whether I would prefer it to a standard.
I will also note that a new standard car will have many of the safety features a non-standard car will have, so that’s a wash, too.

 

 
 
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