The single best thing. 

 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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01 October 2019 22:34
 

Many Americans refer to Trump as forty five as a kind of passive rebellion. Not wanting to acknowledge him by name. This is also the approximate percentage of Americans that support him or did support him when it mattered most. My guess is that about twenty five percent represent his die hard base. Mainly evangelicals, nationalists and ideological capitalists.

To my ear Trump hammers constantly on partisan rivalry. Repeating the most predictable and cliche and false oversimplifications that exonerate one side and blames every problem on the other. This inspires the equally shrill and equally false retorts from the other side. I think most of us have committed these exchanges to memory long ago and no longer really register them as anything but noise.

I think about half of the country actively reviles him. Not simply oppose him… but actively hate and fear him. I am among them. I find him almost entirely without any redeeming quality and I’m truly depressed that so many people can witness his behavior and see a leader.

In some ways he is a reflection of Barack Obama. He certainly seems motivated by some kind of grudge to deliberately dismantle and un name Obama era programs. His rhetorical style, his appointments, his general demeanor and temperament. The people who loved Obama are the people who hate Trump and vice versa.

On one level this polarization is bad. It prevents useful cooperation and trust between people who share basic economic interests. It facilitates all kinds of usury by people who have no personal partisan allegiance. Whether you buy an ‘I love Trump’ t shirt or an ‘I hate Trump’ hoodie your money is probably going to the same factory.

So what’s good? The silver lining in all of this, I think is that skepticism of leadership is good. During Trumps term and also during Obamas term. The positive result of polarizing leaders, hopefully, is that they seed a persistent distrust of leaders and leadership. What I don’t want is a leader with such extraordinary charisma that they appeal to everyone and can therefore get away with anything. I support Bernie Sanders for his social agenda but I also support him for the more cynical reason that he will terrify and anger many people and disrupt many institutions and inspire much protest and dissidence. This was the stated reason of many for voting for Trump. I can’t exactly sympathize with this but I can follow the reasoning and accept that something like this was a long time coming.

The single best aspect of our system, I think is that it has built in checks and balances. The most important check is the citizens. We must take the initiative to keep our leaders in check. Trump is refreshing this basic lesson in the minds of many people who forgot that. He is a walking history lesson about the dangers of nationalistic personality cults.

 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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02 October 2019 03:51
 

But at the same time the single worst aspect of our system is that it allowed a totally incompetent, unintelligent, mendacious, petty, self-serving, intellectually incurious, racist, faux-patriot, con man, demagogue to hold the highest and most revered office in the land. 

Ron

 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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02 October 2019 06:23
 

I see skepticism of leadership only on one side of the political spectrum.
The other has the problem of a cult-like mentality and loyalty to an individual instead of the country.

For far too many people, Trump will become a martyr, not an object lesson on how not to behave.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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02 October 2019 21:40
 

I’d say another silver lining is that the so-called “mainstream media” have dropped any pretense of being less partisan than FOX. Skepticism of our media is also a good thing.

Is skepticism of democracy good, too? It sure seems warranted. But skeptical as I am, I can’t think of another system I’d want to live under. Maybe a benign AI dictatorship?

When it comes to checks and balances, I’m starting to think that the only one that matters anymore is the second amendment. “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Was this Jefferson’s way of saying that democracy is a dead end? No democracy has ever survived more than a few hundred years.

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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02 October 2019 23:18
 

To be clear, Trump is disaster. I hate everything about him. His administration harms us daily.

The one way he could be worse is if he was lovable and charming and handsome and inspired people from both sides of the spectrum to accept and love him. Those leaders are the worst of all. In my view.

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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03 October 2019 13:06
 

I see Trump moving toward the power to nod and have his critics eliminated.  Couldn’t happen here?

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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04 October 2019 00:33
 
unsmoked - 03 October 2019 01:06 PM

I see Trump moving toward the power to nod and have his critics eliminated.  Couldn’t happen here?

Like the Mafia boss that he is, he made it very clear that he wants his opponents harrased, arrested or even killed, offering Pardons for those who break the law for him.
But of course he won’t say it in a way that doesn’t allow for Hannity and Graham to pretend he didn’t.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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05 October 2019 08:22
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 02 October 2019 09:40 PM

I’d say another silver lining is that the so-called “mainstream media” have dropped any pretense of being less partisan than FOX. Skepticism of our media is also a good thing.

Is skepticism of democracy good, too? It sure seems warranted. But skeptical as I am, I can’t think of another system I’d want to live under. Maybe a benign AI dictatorship?

When it comes to checks and balances, I’m starting to think that the only one that matters anymore is the second amendment. “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Was this Jefferson’s way of saying that democracy is a dead end? No democracy has ever survived more than a few hundred years.

I’m going to spin off a different thread about coalition government democracies. I think that the fact that trump is in office, is an indicator that our two-party system is dying, not that democracy is dying.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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05 October 2019 08:33
 

Occasionally the people get tired of the stagnation of politics and send an Alexander to cut the Gordian Knot, for better or worse.  We’ll survive Trump, but it sure will stink around here until he goes away.

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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05 October 2019 10:29
 
Skipshot - 05 October 2019 08:33 AM

Occasionally the people get tired of the stagnation of politics and send an Alexander to cut the Gordian Knot, for better or worse.  We’ll survive Trump, but it sure will stink around here until he goes away.

Around here?  Stink around the world as he hampers cleaning up the atmosphere, the water, the earth . . . as millions die from pollution , , , more than the Nazis were able to kill with their genocide. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/us/trump-california-emissions.html

quote from this article:

A revocation of the waiver would have national significance. Tailpipe pollution is the United States’ largest source of planet-warming greenhouse gas pollution, and California, with roughly 35 million vehicles, is the nation’s largest auto market. California has historically set stronger pollution standards than the federal government, and many of those standards have ultimately influenced national and even international policy.

Thirteen other states follow California’s tighter tailpipe greenhouse gas standards, together representing roughly a third of the national auto market.

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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06 October 2019 16:55
 
Skipshot - 05 October 2019 08:33 AM

Occasionally the people get tired of the stagnation of politics and send an Alexander to cut the Gordian Knot, for better or worse.  We’ll survive Trump, but it sure will stink around here until he goes away.

I buy that some folks saw him as a wrecking ball. At this point however I don’t think that idea holds water. He was supposed to challenge the deep state and congressional corruption…  Instead he has cemented the polarization that so handily enables corruption. He has doubled down on selling government seats to the highest bidders. He’s certainly been a wrecking ball in terms of our political capital abroad and the ability and motive of the executive branch to the balance the scales for poor people.. He’s wrecked any semblance of collegiality or compassion in our national dialogue.I think the people clinging to this narrative are either delusional or dishonest. In many ways he’s had the exact opposite effect of how he was sold. In this way he’s very similar to previous presidents of recent memory.

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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06 October 2019 17:22
 
Brick Bungalow - 06 October 2019 04:55 PM
Skipshot - 05 October 2019 08:33 AM

Occasionally the people get tired of the stagnation of politics and send an Alexander to cut the Gordian Knot, for better or worse.  We’ll survive Trump, but it sure will stink around here until he goes away.

I buy that some folks saw him as a wrecking ball. At this point however I don’t think that idea holds water. He was supposed to challenge the deep state and congressional corruption…  Instead he has cemented the polarization that so handily enables corruption. He has doubled down on selling government seats to the highest bidders. He’s certainly been a wrecking ball in terms of our political capital abroad and the ability and motive of the executive branch to the balance the scales for poor people.. He’s wrecked any semblance of collegiality or compassion in our national dialogue.I think the people clinging to this narrative are either delusional or dishonest. In many ways he’s had the exact opposite effect of how he was sold. In this way he’s very similar to previous presidents of recent memory.

I strongly suspect that nobody outside of Trump’s base takes him seriously.  Foreign leaders are avoiding having serious conversations with him, and just entertain the clown while they wait for the next election, and hope the American people have tired of their silly experiment.

 
EN
 
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EN
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06 October 2019 18:18
 
Skipshot - 06 October 2019 05:22 PM
Brick Bungalow - 06 October 2019 04:55 PM
Skipshot - 05 October 2019 08:33 AM

Occasionally the people get tired of the stagnation of politics and send an Alexander to cut the Gordian Knot, for better or worse.  We’ll survive Trump, but it sure will stink around here until he goes away.

I buy that some folks saw him as a wrecking ball. At this point however I don’t think that idea holds water. He was supposed to challenge the deep state and congressional corruption…  Instead he has cemented the polarization that so handily enables corruption. He has doubled down on selling government seats to the highest bidders. He’s certainly been a wrecking ball in terms of our political capital abroad and the ability and motive of the executive branch to the balance the scales for poor people.. He’s wrecked any semblance of collegiality or compassion in our national dialogue.I think the people clinging to this narrative are either delusional or dishonest. In many ways he’s had the exact opposite effect of how he was sold. In this way he’s very similar to previous presidents of recent memory.

I strongly suspect that nobody outside of Trump’s base takes him seriously.  Foreign leaders are avoiding having serious conversations with him, and just entertain the clown while they wait for the next election, and hope the American people have tired of their silly experiment.

Agree, and now that the majority is favoring impeachment, GOP Senators May have to recalculate their strategies.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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06 October 2019 18:50
 
EN - 06 October 2019 06:18 PM
Skipshot - 06 October 2019 05:22 PM
Brick Bungalow - 06 October 2019 04:55 PM
Skipshot - 05 October 2019 08:33 AM

Occasionally the people get tired of the stagnation of politics and send an Alexander to cut the Gordian Knot, for better or worse.  We’ll survive Trump, but it sure will stink around here until he goes away.

I buy that some folks saw him as a wrecking ball. At this point however I don’t think that idea holds water. He was supposed to challenge the deep state and congressional corruption…  Instead he has cemented the polarization that so handily enables corruption. He has doubled down on selling government seats to the highest bidders. He’s certainly been a wrecking ball in terms of our political capital abroad and the ability and motive of the executive branch to the balance the scales for poor people.. He’s wrecked any semblance of collegiality or compassion in our national dialogue.I think the people clinging to this narrative are either delusional or dishonest. In many ways he’s had the exact opposite effect of how he was sold. In this way he’s very similar to previous presidents of recent memory.

I strongly suspect that nobody outside of Trump’s base takes him seriously.  Foreign leaders are avoiding having serious conversations with him, and just entertain the clown while they wait for the next election, and hope the American people have tired of their silly experiment.

Agree, and now that the majority is favoring impeachment, GOP Senators May have to recalculate their strategies.

AOC said she thought a great side benefit of impeachment is that it’ll force every GOPer into a tough spot, specifically, having a “oh, he’s okay” vote on their record forever.

I hope she’s right, but the cynical side of me thinks congressmen and senators are way beyond caring about their legacies - sigh.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
Total Posts:  8697
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10 October 2019 11:54
 
icehorse - 06 October 2019 06:50 PM
EN - 06 October 2019 06:18 PM
Skipshot - 06 October 2019 05:22 PM
Brick Bungalow - 06 October 2019 04:55 PM
Skipshot - 05 October 2019 08:33 AM

Occasionally the people get tired of the stagnation of politics and send an Alexander to cut the Gordian Knot, for better or worse.  We’ll survive Trump, but it sure will stink around here until he goes away.

I buy that some folks saw him as a wrecking ball. At this point however I don’t think that idea holds water. He was supposed to challenge the deep state and congressional corruption…  Instead he has cemented the polarization that so handily enables corruption. He has doubled down on selling government seats to the highest bidders. He’s certainly been a wrecking ball in terms of our political capital abroad and the ability and motive of the executive branch to the balance the scales for poor people.. He’s wrecked any semblance of collegiality or compassion in our national dialogue.I think the people clinging to this narrative are either delusional or dishonest. In many ways he’s had the exact opposite effect of how he was sold. In this way he’s very similar to previous presidents of recent memory.

I strongly suspect that nobody outside of Trump’s base takes him seriously.  Foreign leaders are avoiding having serious conversations with him, and just entertain the clown while they wait for the next election, and hope the American people have tired of their silly experiment.

Agree, and now that the majority is favoring impeachment, GOP Senators May have to recalculate their strategies.

AOC said she thought a great side benefit of impeachment is that it’ll force every GOPer into a tough spot, specifically, having a “oh, he’s okay” vote on their record forever.

I hope she’s right, but the cynical side of me thinks congressmen and senators are way beyond caring about their legacies - sigh.

Right.  They’re not going to say anything.  What self-respecting senator wants to go down in history, identified by the President as a ‘bird-brained. treasonous, turn-coat schmuck’? 

https://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/daily-cartoon/wednesday-october-9th-trump-subway?verso=true