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Dementia - does God restore memory after death?

 
unsmoked
 
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20 October 2019 13:31
 

Dementia - does God restore memory after death?

Speaking of the ‘afterlife’, here’s an interesting article in the May 20, 2019 New Yorker:  https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/05/20/if-god-is-dead-your-time-is-everything

The second paragraph in this article reads:

She who hath ears to hear, let her hear. One of the most beautifully succinct expressions of secular faith in our bounded life on earth was provided not long after Christ supposedly conquered death, by Pliny the Elder, who called down “a plague on this mad idea that life is renewed by death!” Pliny argued that belief in an afterlife removes “Nature’s particular boon,” the great blessing of death, and merely makes dying more anguished by adding anxiety about the future to the familiar grief of departure. How much easier, he continues, “for each person to trust in himself,” and for us to assume that death will offer exactly the same “freedom from care” that we experienced before we were born: oblivion.

[ Edited: 20 October 2019 13:34 by unsmoked]
 
 
Twissel
 
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20 October 2019 22:14
 

how much Heavenly Healthcare you’ll receive depends on how much you donated to your Megachurch whilst alive.

 
 
MrRon
 
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21 October 2019 03:51
 
unsmoked - 20 October 2019 01:31 PM

Dementia - does God restore memory after death?

I would imagine believers would say yes - we are restored to our maximum physical/cognitive state.

But I have often pondered what happens to babies or small children when they die. Do they start out as babies/small children in Heaven and then “grow into” their adult personalities? Or are they instantly made into the adult personifications of themselves? If so, wouldn’t some babies automatically go to Hell (or at least be rejected from Heaven)? Aren’t our personalities formed via the vicissitudes of life here on Earth, which we are then judged on? How can that process play out in Heaven? Or do certain souls just automatically get a free pass (or instant rejection)? 


Ron

 

 

 
EN
 
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21 October 2019 08:30
 

Since none of you believe in God or the afterlife, why do you even ask these types of questions?

 
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21 October 2019 12:52
 
EN - 21 October 2019 08:30 AM

Since none of you believe in God or the afterlife, why do you even ask these types of questions?

Just because one doesn’t believe in something doesn’t mean they can’t probe it, thus exposing potential shortcomings. 

Anyway, I think the better question is… how would believers answer these questions? Care to weigh in on them EN? It would be great to get your take.

Ron

 
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21 October 2019 12:58
 
EN - 21 October 2019 08:30 AM

Since none of you believe in God or the afterlife, why do you even ask these types of questions?

Because some of you believe in God or the afterlife.  The continuation of the self forever, (personal memories forever) seems to fly in the face of nature.  I mean nature or reality where we all admire springtime and new beginnings.  We all see the beauty of a fresh start, being washed clean, rebirth.

p.s. - This cartoon is about me, if I tried to bribe St. Peter and get in.

https://condenaststore.com/featured/st-peter-talks-to-a-man-at-the-pearly-gates-charles-barsotti.html

[ Edited: 21 October 2019 13:14 by unsmoked]
 
 
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21 October 2019 18:09
 

Use the analogy of a programmer who has created a simulation with conscious beings. He could easily save all memories and subjective experiences on his hard drive. They are part of the simulation he has programmed. When the being who had these experiences comes to the end of his life (as programmed by our programmer), there is nothing preventing the programmer from downloading these experiences into a new being.  Once animated with consciousness in the simulation, the new being would be a continuation of the first being.  If you assume a programmer advanced enough, nothing would be impossible.

 
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21 October 2019 21:14
 
EN - 21 October 2019 06:09 PM

Use the analogy of a programmer who has created a simulation with conscious beings. He could easily save all memories and subjective experiences on his hard drive. They are part of the simulation he has programmed. When the being who had these experiences comes to the end of his life (as programmed by our programmer), there is nothing preventing the programmer from downloading these experiences into a new being.  Once animated with consciousness in the simulation, the new being would be a continuation of the first being.  If you assume a programmer advanced enough, nothing would be impossible.

It’s not easy to tell whether you write stuff like this with tongue in cheek, are just having us all off for impertinence. Presumably, you understand that you’ve been asked a “rhetorical question”.

It’s not as if you’re god, or anything. If you assume whatever you want to assume, you can assume anything you want. I learned that one from the Department of Tautology Department. In other words, you can make up any story you like. What you got used to doing is believing various stories you were told until you got the hang of telling stories, yourself. There’s nothing exactly wrong with making shit up and telling stories about it. Nothing says you have to make up a story to tell anyone but yourself. When you start writing stories you think will please others, you’ve made a bid to go professional, and somebody’s going to ask you for your fucking qualifications. This becomes more and more likely the cheesier your story is.

Questions of this type have been addressed extensively in popular culture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL80p4wHda4

[Crash Test Dummies - song: “God Shuffled His Feet”; album: “God Shuffled His Feet”; this is the “title track”, as it is sometimes known.]

“If your eye got poked out in this life
would it be waiting up in heaven with your wife?

God shuffled his feet and looked around at them.
The people cleared their throats, and stared right back at Him”

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/oct/19/doubting-death-how-our-brains-shield-us-from-mortal-truth

There you have it, in florid journalistic sexual lubricant. The possibility of impossibility. If you can’t imagine a state where you can’t imagine anything, or remember anything because there’s no one there to imagine it or remember it, you can make up whatever story you want.

People call it “the possibility of impossibility” because it remains a possibility until it doesn’t. Having a cheesy story to tell doesn’t actually negate the possibility of impossibility.

[ Edited: 21 October 2019 21:34 by Traces Elk]
 
 
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22 October 2019 03:57
 
EN - 21 October 2019 06:09 PM

Use the analogy of a programmer who has created a simulation with conscious beings. He could easily save all memories and subjective experiences on his hard drive. They are part of the simulation he has programmed. When the being who had these experiences comes to the end of his life (as programmed by our programmer), there is nothing preventing the programmer from downloading these experiences into a new being.  Once animated with consciousness in the simulation, the new being would be a continuation of the first being.  If you assume a programmer advanced enough, nothing would be impossible.

What I’m interested in knowing is what happens to babies or small children when they die. They haven’t accumulated a lifetime of memories and experiences. They haven’t formed their adult personalities. They haven’t had the opportunity to express their free will in a manner that would either please or displease God. So how are they judged for admittance into Heaven? Do they remain their immature selves for eternity? Or do they immediately assume what would have been their adult personalities on Earth? And if that’s the case, then why does God make any of us go through the motions of a full Earthly life when it’s apparently not even necessary for judgment?

Ron

 
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22 October 2019 06:34
 
Traces Elk - 21 October 2019 09:14 PM
EN - 21 October 2019 06:09 PM

Use the analogy of a programmer who has created a simulation with conscious beings. He could easily save all memories and subjective experiences on his hard drive. They are part of the simulation he has programmed. When the being who had these experiences comes to the end of his life (as programmed by our programmer), there is nothing preventing the programmer from downloading these experiences into a new being.  Once animated with consciousness in the simulation, the new being would be a continuation of the first being.  If you assume a programmer advanced enough, nothing would be impossible.

It’s not easy to tell whether you write stuff like this with tongue in cheek, are just having us all off for impertinence. Presumably, you understand that you’ve been asked a “rhetorical question”.

It’s not as if you’re god, or anything. If you assume whatever you want to assume, you can assume anything you want. I learned that one from the Department of Tautology Department. In other words, you can make up any story you like. What you got used to doing is believing various stories you were told until you got the hang of telling stories, yourself. There’s nothing exactly wrong with making shit up and telling stories about it. Nothing says you have to make up a story to tell anyone but yourself. When you start writing stories you think will please others, you’ve made a bid to go professional, and somebody’s going to ask you for your fucking qualifications. This becomes more and more likely the cheesier your story is.

Questions of this type have been addressed extensively in popular culture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL80p4wHda4

[Crash Test Dummies - song: “God Shuffled His Feet”; album: “God Shuffled His Feet”; this is the “title track”, as it is sometimes known.]

“If your eye got poked out in this life
would it be waiting up in heaven with your wife?

God shuffled his feet and looked around at them.
The people cleared their throats, and stared right back at Him”

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/oct/19/doubting-death-how-our-brains-shield-us-from-mortal-truth

There you have it, in florid journalistic sexual lubricant. The possibility of impossibility. If you can’t imagine a state where you can’t imagine anything, or remember anything because there’s no one there to imagine it or remember it, you can make up whatever story you want.

People call it “the possibility of impossibility” because it remains a possibility until it doesn’t. Having a cheesy story to tell doesn’t actually negate the possibility of impossibility.

I can give my qualifications in brief form: I’m totally unqualified but have an imagination. It comes from being the only child at home for most of my life. Frankly, I respond to questions like this to stir things up a little. It gets boring around here sometimes.  Why should all the shit that comes out of me go to waste?  I want to spread the wealth.

 
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22 October 2019 06:39
 
MrRon - 22 October 2019 03:57 AM
EN - 21 October 2019 06:09 PM

Use the analogy of a programmer who has created a simulation with conscious beings. He could easily save all memories and subjective experiences on his hard drive. They are part of the simulation he has programmed. When the being who had these experiences comes to the end of his life (as programmed by our programmer), there is nothing preventing the programmer from downloading these experiences into a new being.  Once animated with consciousness in the simulation, the new being would be a continuation of the first being.  If you assume a programmer advanced enough, nothing would be impossible.

What I’m interested in knowing is what happens to babies or small children when they die. They haven’t accumulated a lifetime of memories and experiences. They haven’t formed their adult personalities. They haven’t had the opportunity to express their free will in a manner that would either please or displease God. So how are they judged for admittance into Heaven? Do they remain their immature selves for eternity? Or do they immediately assume what would have been their adult personalities on Earth? And if that’s the case, then why does God make any of us go through the motions of a full Earthly life when it’s apparently not even necessary for judgment?

Ron

I don’t have a clue.  I don’t rely on doctrine, and I certainly have no personal experience to show me what happens to babies after they die. I can speculate without end, and can weave a story, but then Traces Elk would crap all over it and you would ask me endless questions about something I don’t know any more about than anyone else.

I will tell you this: I don’t think anyone goes to eternal hell, and that in the end, we are all united with God.  What God is doing by making the universe the way he has and allowing us to evolve they way we have and allowing all the bad stuff that goes on, I don’t know. My speculation (teeing it up for the Elk) is that all the crap we go through is somehow going to profit us in a future world, and is somehow involved in allowing us to evolve as moral beings. The End.

 
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22 October 2019 08:12
 
EN - 22 October 2019 06:39 AM

What God is doing by making the universe the way he has and allowing us to evolve they way we have and allowing all the bad stuff that goes on, I don’t know.

Well, there’s a story what goes along with that one, too, however ‘honest’ it is to say, “I don’t know” when somebody asks you what you think your god’s purpose is. On the one hand, you admit your belief is pure faith, and that’s also honest. It’s also not untoward to say that you respond the way you do because just saying “I don’t know” is too boring. This is how far we’ve gotten in ten or twelve or more years.

It says a lot when you suggest your story about a cosmic computer programmer shows you have ‘imagination’. With a little imagination, nobody’s stuck with faith—it’s chosen for reasons nobody wants to talk much about. Imagination is what we need to fill up all those dreary hours we would spend wringing our hands about how lousy it feels that there is no purpose to existence. That’s the counterpoint to some smug profession of how well faith works for us, and maybe it’s the subtext, too. People whose faith is really that crystal clear don’t spend ten or twelve or more years discussing it with people of no faith, but this is in no way a bad thing.

I don’t think honesty is over-rated. In so very many cases, it substitutes handsomely for imagination, and that’s when honesty really shines. Perhaps today is not its day in the sun.

 
 
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22 October 2019 09:51
 

I see that Mario is posting today.  I’m betting, without looking, that it has something to do with me speculating about things.  Of course, Mario KNOWS, so how can I compete with that?

 
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22 October 2019 09:53
 
Traces Elk - 22 October 2019 08:12 AM

This is how far we’ve gotten in ten or twelve or more years.

If you are ever in Texas, give me a call.  There are much better venues than Abilene.

 
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22 October 2019 10:30
 
EN - 22 October 2019 09:53 AM
Traces Elk - 22 October 2019 08:12 AM

This is how far we’ve gotten in ten or twelve or more years.

If you are ever in Texas, give me a call.  There are much better venues than Abilene.

I’ve always wanted to see Wichita Falls. Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays did a CD many years ago, called “As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls”, and you can probably find tracks from it on youtube. But I’m guessing the River Walk is better.

And then there’s that other Lyle. I love his versions of “Long Tall Texan”. And the one that goes, “you’re not from Texas but Texas wants you anyway”. I own five or six LL recordings. His gospel stuff just about gives me religion. Let’s see what Mario thinks of that.

 
 
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22 October 2019 10:47
 

Brother Mario once gave a scientific explanation for how God printed a Xerox copy of Jesus on his burial shroud.  However, if you believe that a man who was born from a virgin went to a wedding party and turned a jug of water into a jug of wine . . . you really never have to explain anything.  If you believe that a jug of water can be turned into a jug of wine the question of how Ronald Reagan, arriving in Heaven, once again remembered Mikhail Gorbachev and perestroika . . .

Ronald:  Say, Nancy, remember when I told Mikhail to tear down that wall?  And, wow!  Remember when I was married to Jane Wyman and she won an Oscar for . . .

Nancy:  Oh Ron!  It’s good to have you back!  Let’s let bygones be bygones and enjoy ourselves.

Jane:  Ron!  Aren’t you going to introduce me?

Wait, couldn’t a hypnotist entrance people at a party so that they thought the water they were drinking was wine?  I mean, they drink the water and start staggering, singing and dancing and kissing the bride and getting punched by the groom?  Say, Is it possible that the Bible is something like a watch swinging back and forth so that as susceptible people read it they believe that when they die they are not going to be dead?.

[ Edited: 22 October 2019 10:51 by unsmoked]
 
 
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