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Something to learn from

 
Garret
 
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Garret
Total Posts:  623
Joined  16-01-2019
 
 
 
08 November 2019 22:40
 
bbearren - 08 November 2019 04:56 PM
Garret - 08 November 2019 02:17 PM
icehorse - 07 November 2019 05:19 PM

some sort of term limits (to add to the already good list)

I’m opposed to term limits.

Fifteen states are not opposed to term limits, and have term limits for state legislators.  They are Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Ohio, Oklahoma, and South Dakota.

And?

 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
Total Posts:  3864
Joined  20-11-2013
 
 
 
08 November 2019 23:36
 
Garret - 08 November 2019 10:40 PM
bbearren - 08 November 2019 04:56 PM
Garret - 08 November 2019 02:17 PM
icehorse - 07 November 2019 05:19 PM

some sort of term limits (to add to the already good list)

I’m opposed to term limits.

Fifteen states are not opposed to term limits, and have term limits for state legislators.  They are Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Ohio, Oklahoma, and South Dakota.

And?

You represent one vote (if you lived in one of those states, and were of voting age when term limits were on the ballot).  The average percentage of the “for” vote in those 15 states was 67%.  In addition, “Twenty-three states (AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, FL, ID, ME, MA, MI, MO, MT, NE, NH, NV, ND, OH, OK, OR, SD, UT, WA, and WY) passed federal congressional term limits at the state level before the 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision in U.S. Term Limits v. Thornton declared the requirement of a constitutional amendment to limit the terms of Congress. These statutes are still on the books, however, they are not enforceable unless the Supreme Court decision is overturned.”

The major “what” that the OP is asking for is for everyone of voting-age to be issue-knowledgeable, registered with proper photo ID where required, willing to show up at the polls and vote in every local, state and federal election.  In my opinion that is the only “what” that can get us out of the condition in which we find ourselves these days.

If you live in a state that does not have term limits, you can campaign and vote against it if it ever turns up on your ballot.

 
 
Garret
 
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Garret
Total Posts:  623
Joined  16-01-2019
 
 
 
09 November 2019 08:25
 
bbearren - 08 November 2019 11:36 PM
Garret - 08 November 2019 10:40 PM
bbearren - 08 November 2019 04:56 PM
Garret - 08 November 2019 02:17 PM
icehorse - 07 November 2019 05:19 PM

some sort of term limits (to add to the already good list)

I’m opposed to term limits.

Fifteen states are not opposed to term limits, and have term limits for state legislators.  They are Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Ohio, Oklahoma, and South Dakota.

And?

You represent one vote (if you lived in one of those states, and were of voting age when term limits were on the ballot).  The average percentage of the “for” vote in those 15 states was 67%.  In addition, “Twenty-three states (AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, FL, ID, ME, MA, MI, MO, MT, NE, NH, NV, ND, OH, OK, OR, SD, UT, WA, and WY) passed federal congressional term limits at the state level before the 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision in U.S. Term Limits v. Thornton declared the requirement of a constitutional amendment to limit the terms of Congress. These statutes are still on the books, however, they are not enforceable unless the Supreme Court decision is overturned.”

The major “what” that the OP is asking for is for everyone of voting-age to be issue-knowledgeable, registered with proper photo ID where required, willing to show up at the polls and vote in every local, state and federal election.  In my opinion that is the only “what” that can get us out of the condition in which we find ourselves these days.

If you live in a state that does not have term limits, you can campaign and vote against it if it ever turns up on your ballot.

I wrote a fairly long post, why are you only responding to the first 5 words?  Did you bother reading any of the other ones? 

Right now you’re giving an argument from popularity.  Because these states passed term limits by wide margins, therefore term limits are good.  That is a dumb argument.

[ Edited: 09 November 2019 08:30 by Garret]
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
Total Posts:  3864
Joined  20-11-2013
 
 
 
09 November 2019 09:34
 
Garret - 09 November 2019 08:25 AM

I wrote a fairly long post, why are you only responding to the first 5 words?  Did you bother reading any of the other ones?

Indeed I did.  None of your words invalidate the fact that term limits are either statutory or state constitution amendments.

Right now you’re giving an argument from popularity.  Because these states passed term limits by wide margins, therefore term limits are good.  That is a dumb argument.  If I have to tell you why that is a dumb argument, I don’t think this conversation is going to be worth my time.

I’m not making any argument; not saying that term limits are good or bad.  I’m saying that you are one vote, and that’s all I’m saying.  If you live in a state that does not have term limits, you can campaign and vote against it if it ever turns up on your ballot.

I maintain that until everyone of voting-age is issue-knowledgeable, registered with proper photo ID where required, willing to show up at the polls and vote in every local, state and federal election, we will remain in this condition in which we currently find ourselves.  You can call that an argument from popularity if you like.  We do call it “popular vote”, don’t we?  Aside from the Electoral College in presidential elections, popular vote determines the outcome of the electoral process.

The fact remains that modifications to the constitution are called amendments, and each amendment requires a super majority of both houses of congress and/or a super majority of the 50 states, as spelled out in Article V.  There is no shortcut.  There is no end-around.  It is spelled out precisely.  In any and all cases, to change where we are, to where we wish to be, begins at the ballot box with an issue-knowledgeable, willing electorate.

 
 
Garret
 
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Garret
Total Posts:  623
Joined  16-01-2019
 
 
 
09 November 2019 21:19
 
bbearren - 09 November 2019 09:34 AM
Garret - 09 November 2019 08:25 AM

I wrote a fairly long post, why are you only responding to the first 5 words?  Did you bother reading any of the other ones?

Indeed I did.  None of your words invalidate the fact that term limits are either statutory or state constitution amendments.

Right now you’re giving an argument from popularity.  Because these states passed term limits by wide margins, therefore term limits are good.  That is a dumb argument.  If I have to tell you why that is a dumb argument, I don’t think this conversation is going to be worth my time.

I’m not making any argument; not saying that term limits are good or bad.  I’m saying that you are one vote, and that’s all I’m saying.  If you live in a state that does not have term limits, you can campaign and vote against it if it ever turns up on your ballot.

I maintain that until everyone of voting-age is issue-knowledgeable, registered with proper photo ID where required, willing to show up at the polls and vote in every local, state and federal election, we will remain in this condition in which we currently find ourselves.  You can call that an argument from popularity if you like.  We do call it “popular vote”, don’t we?  Aside from the Electoral College in presidential elections, popular vote determines the outcome of the electoral process.

The fact remains that modifications to the constitution are called amendments, and each amendment requires a super majority of both houses of congress and/or a super majority of the 50 states, as spelled out in Article V.  There is no shortcut.  There is no end-around.  It is spelled out precisely.  In any and all cases, to change where we are, to where we wish to be, begins at the ballot box with an issue-knowledgeable, willing electorate.

Okay, so you’re just gonna talk at me, and not to me.  Cool.

[ Edited: 09 November 2019 21:25 by Garret]
 
bbearren
 
Avatar
 
 
bbearren
Total Posts:  3864
Joined  20-11-2013
 
 
 
09 November 2019 22:34
 
Garret - 09 November 2019 09:19 PM
bbearren - 09 November 2019 09:34 AM

I’m not making any argument; not saying that term limits are good or bad.  I’m saying that you are one vote, and that’s all I’m saying.  If you live in a state that does not have term limits, you can campaign and vote against it if it ever turns up on your ballot.

I maintain that until everyone of voting-age is issue-knowledgeable, registered with proper photo ID where required, willing to show up at the polls and vote in every local, state and federal election, we will remain in this condition in which we currently find ourselves.  You can call that an argument from popularity if you like.  We do call it “popular vote”, don’t we?  Aside from the Electoral College in presidential elections, popular vote determines the outcome of the electoral process.

The fact remains that modifications to the constitution are called amendments, and each amendment requires a super majority of both houses of congress and/or a super majority of the 50 states, as spelled out in Article V.  There is no shortcut.  There is no end-around.  It is spelled out precisely.  In any and all cases, to change where we are, to where we wish to be, begins at the ballot box with an issue-knowledgeable, willing electorate.

Okay, so you’re just gonna talk at me, and not to me.  Cool.

I am talking to you; perhaps you don’t recognize it.  We live in a democratic republic at federal and state level.  I maintain that until everyone of voting-age is issue-knowledgeable, registered with proper photo ID where required, willing to show up at the polls and vote in every local, state and federal election, we will remain in this condition in which we currently find ourselves.  You can call that an argument from popularity if you like.  We do call it “popular vote”, don’t we?  Aside from the Electoral College in presidential elections, popular vote determines the outcome of the electoral process.

The fact remains that modifications to the constitution are called amendments, and each amendment requires a super majority of both houses of congress and/or a super majority of the 50 states, as spelled out in Article V.  There is no shortcut.  There is no end-around.  It is spelled out precisely.  In any and all cases, to change where we are, to where we wish to be, begins at the ballot box with an issue-knowledgeable, willing electorate.

 
 
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