The New Way

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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06 November 2019 15:32
 

This forum has always promoted civility above all else.  There are no rules.  There are only guidelines and a description of the layout for convenience.  Patrons have generally abided by the tone and held the place to a respectful standard.  It’s the smart choice considering how fortunate it is to have this opportunity.  It’d be crazy to take it for granted.  But the balance has shifted and it seems things have changed.  People have forgotten that posting is a privilege not a right. 

The idea for The Unknown Poster thread stemmed from listening to patrons private concerns.  Veterans, Newbies, and Lurkers alike.  It has given me a glimpse into the widening disparity between individual experience and public perception.  I think if everyone were able to share the same opportunity for honest expression without getting steamrolled then maybe they would.  And if the steamrollers knew what people really thought of them maybe they’d be compelled to yield from time to time.  Everyone needs to take a minute and thoughtfully read the signs. 

I mainly sweep up around here so I’m well aware of the litter problem. 

I still don’t think we need rules.  We just need to govern ourselves accordingly.  Only better.

It’s all part of The New Way.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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09 November 2019 10:50
Traces Elk
 
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Traces Elk
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11 November 2019 00:33
 
LadyJane - 06 November 2019 03:32 PM

I think if everyone were able to share the same opportunity for honest expression without getting steamrolled then maybe they would.

Rationalist online communities preferentially attract people who fancy themselves sharp analysts of both hard data and of human frailty.

Two kinds of folks dominate the structure of rationalist online posting. Those who are shy and would like to feel safe saying what they have to say in anonymous text boxes, and aggressive types who actually do feel safe saying what they have to say in anonymous text boxes. At the very least, this calls for a clear statement of what constitutes ‘steamrolling’, even though we know what it is, intuitively.

After that’s squared away, just put a sign up over the door announcing the “no steamrolling” policy, although I perceive a subtle reluctance to force everyone to affirm a membership agreement with legal force to terminate user accounts. The latter gives us the whole sockpuppet can of worms.

You’ve established an effective “jar” system for corralling the most toxic trolls who can’t resist spamming this forum. And, you’ve probably established a culture of civility among the several handfuls of members who post actively. The door is wide open, though, and a “no steamrolling” policy will attract some who’d like to test it to see what lies behind it besides a wish.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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11 November 2019 03:35
 

I’m down.

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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11 November 2019 11:53
 
Traces Elk - 11 November 2019 12:33 AM
LadyJane - 06 November 2019 03:32 PM

I think if everyone were able to share the same opportunity for honest expression without getting steamrolled then maybe they would.

Rationalist online communities preferentially attract people who fancy themselves sharp analysts of both hard data and of human frailty.

Two kinds of folks dominate the structure of rationalist online posting. Those who are shy and would like to feel safe saying what they have to say in anonymous text boxes, and aggressive types who actually do feel safe saying what they have to say in anonymous text boxes. At the very least, this calls for a clear statement of what constitutes ‘steamrolling’, even though we know what it is, intuitively.

After that’s squared away, just put a sign up over the door announcing the “no steamrolling” policy, although I perceive a subtle reluctance to force everyone to affirm a membership agreement with legal force to terminate user accounts. The latter gives us the whole sockpuppet can of worms.

You’ve established an effective “jar” system for corralling the most toxic trolls who can’t resist spamming this forum. And, you’ve probably established a culture of civility among the several handfuls of members who post actively. The door is wide open, though, and a “no steamrolling” policy will attract some who’d like to test it to see what lies behind it besides a wish.

This forum doesn’t attract much new talent these days unlike back when a hyperlink to this place could be found.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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11 November 2019 12:38
 

I’ve witnessed steamrolling in a variety of ways.  It’s the thing that brings everything else to a screeching halt.

When you take the time and effort to start a new thread you want it to gain traction.  You want others to put even a fraction of the time and effort you took to lay it out.  Instead of spitting out the first thing that skims the surface of a shallow turbid pond.  Rolling in to change the track is about the quickest way to sabotage a conversation.  It happens all the time.  Like a wet blanket.  And the more patrons want to lead every discussion the more we all end up in jars.

Another common occurrence is in the way we welcome newbies.  As though we are being encroached on by a rival tribe carrying big sticks.  Then either bite their heads off or ignore them completely.  And I would kindly ask that before telling someone to fuck off or calling them an arrogant asshole on Christmas morning please consider the rest of us and allow us to decide for ourselves.  Those who fail this common courtesy will find their posts in The Klein Bottle.

Then there are the part time preachers.  Who show up periodically to write long diatribes with the answers to everything.  They don’t particularly want feedback and if they do it must be positive.  A lot of people waste time with these folks and see what they want to see.  Those of us reading carefully can see when there’s simply nothing there.  And often less than nothing.  Feeding trolls is a choice left up to the individual.  But the more it goes on the more it starves the group.

The expectation of women has traditionally been one of docility and compliance.  And if it wasn’t expected it was certainly rewarded.  A few warm gusts of attention may be enough to hold onto that all important feeling of intellectual superiority but it’s not enough to go anywhere.  Which hardly makes it worthwhile.  It means always having to pay fer play.  You might feel like Svengali for a minute but that’s the price of submission.  Laughed at by those of us standing in defiance.

These examples are easy enough to ignore or engage or ridicule with sarcasm.  Trouble is we don’t.  One patron may get a lashing of personal attacks for expressing an opinion while the same opinion expressed by another receives a round of applause.  It doesn’t get any more full of shit than that.  When someone delivers some careless little number from the comfort of their false sense of security, like a meatball across the plate, we have an obligation to knock it out of the park.  We owe it to ourselves.  We owe it to each other.  And we owe it to comedy. 

The slow moving machinery is a joke and the operators haven’t a clue.  It’s time to pummel them with reason til they idle out of steam.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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11 November 2019 13:10
 

And now all we need is MFGA hats.

 
 
Traces Elk
 
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Traces Elk
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13 November 2019 12:35
 
LadyJane - 11 November 2019 12:38 PM

I’ve witnessed steamrolling in a variety of ways.  It’s the thing that brings everything else to a screeching halt.

When you take the time and effort to start a new thread you want it to gain traction.  You want others to put even a fraction of the time and effort you took to lay it out.  Instead of spitting out the first thing that skims the surface of a shallow turbid pond.  Rolling in to change the track is about the quickest way to sabotage a conversation.  It happens all the time.  Like a wet blanket.  And the more patrons want to lead every discussion the more we all end up in jars.

Another common occurrence is in the way we welcome newbies.  As though we are being encroached on by a rival tribe carrying big sticks.  Then either bite their heads off or ignore them completely.  And I would kindly ask that before telling someone to fuck off or calling them an arrogant asshole on Christmas morning please consider the rest of us and allow us to decide for ourselves.  Those who fail this common courtesy will find their posts in The Klein Bottle.

Then there are the part time preachers.  Who show up periodically to write long diatribes with the answers to everything.  They don’t particularly want feedback and if they do it must be positive.  A lot of people waste time with these folks and see what they want to see.  Those of us reading carefully can see when there’s simply nothing there.  And often less than nothing.  Feeding trolls is a choice left up to the individual.  But the more it goes on the more it starves the group.

The expectation of women has traditionally been one of docility and compliance.  And if it wasn’t expected it was certainly rewarded.  A few warm gusts of attention may be enough to hold onto that all important feeling of intellectual superiority but it’s not enough to go anywhere.  Which hardly makes it worthwhile.  It means always having to pay fer play.  You might feel like Svengali for a minute but that’s the price of submission.  Laughed at by those of us standing in defiance.

These examples are easy enough to ignore or engage or ridicule with sarcasm.  Trouble is we don’t.  One patron may get a lashing of personal attacks for expressing an opinion while the same opinion expressed by another receives a round of applause.  It doesn’t get any more full of shit than that.  When someone delivers some careless little number from the comfort of their false sense of security, like a meatball across the plate, we have an obligation to knock it out of the park.  We owe it to ourselves.  We owe it to each other.  And we owe it to comedy. 

The slow moving machinery is a joke and the operators haven’t a clue.  It’s time to pummel them with reason til they idle out of steam.

This is all very meta. I confess I’m having no success in detecting the point you might want to make, but I suspect you’re not really advocating that our conversations have a particular point to them, and that you’re promoting dynamics or praxis over aiming for some doxology. I don’t know about you, but I find doxology easy to ignore until it cuts itself open running with scissors.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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13 November 2019 15:23
 

I was providing examples for clarification in response to this statement:

Traces Elk - 11 November 2019 12:33 AM

At the very least, this calls for a clear statement of what constitutes ‘steamrolling’, even though we know what it is, intuitively.

And, of course, merely reflect my perception of experiences at this forum including the notion your question wasn’t rhetorical.

Traces Elk - 13 November 2019 12:35 PM

I confess I’m having no success in detecting the point you might want to make, but I suspect you’re not really advocating that our conversations have a particular point to them, and that you’re promoting dynamics or praxis over aiming for some doxology.

In order to avoid, what can only be described as, the Ping Pong Effect.  Where it’s like watching twenty games of ping pong playing simultaneously.  And nobody has a partner.  Twenty separate tables serving the same shot that bounces twice and leaves the table.  The same two bounces with the same exact spin over and over every time.  Day in Day out.  And a bunch of grown men desperately searching for their balls.

I don’t know about you, but I find doxology easy to ignore until it cuts itself open running with scissors.

I find everything easy to ignore.  Invisible scissors are relatively harmless.  Believing in their sharpness is painful for everyone.

This is all very meta.

I think I can sum it up succinctly enough to render posts from each patron according to their ability to each patron according to their need.

Be Better.  Suck Less.

 
 
Traces Elk
 
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Traces Elk
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13 November 2019 21:53
 
LadyJane - 13 November 2019 03:23 PM
Traces Elk - 13 November 2019 12:35 PM

I confess I’m having no success in detecting the point you might want to make, but I suspect you’re not really advocating that our conversations have a particular point to them, and that you’re promoting dynamics or praxis over aiming for some doxology.

In order to avoid, what can only be described as, the Ping Pong Effect.  Where it’s like watching twenty games of ping pong playing simultaneously.  And nobody has a partner.  Twenty separate tables serving the same shot that bounces twice and leaves the table.  The same two bounces with the same exact spin over and over every time.  Day in Day out.  And a bunch of grown men desperately searching for their balls.

Yes, it’s an unfortunate waste (or even stifling) of human potential. Something must be done.

LadyJane - 06 November 2019 03:32 PM

This forum has always promoted civility above all else.

Amen, Sister!