Do Christians believe that they are born incomplete?

 
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24 December 2019 10:59
 

Do Christians believe that they are born incomplete?  If so, do they believe that knowledge of the Jesus stories, as told in the Bible, can make them complete?

Suppose humans have been telling each other stories for the past 100,000 years.  Were those people all incomplete until they started telling each other the Bible stories about Jesus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLT9dSt8cwg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNy289k6Oc

 

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 13:05 by unsmoked]
 
 
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24 December 2019 13:16
 

this post moved to another topic

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 12:57 by unsmoked]
 
 
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24 December 2019 16:51
 

And then tack on to that our last - almost 20 years - in the ME

 
 
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24 December 2019 23:12
 
unsmoked - 24 December 2019 10:59 AM

Do Christians believe that they are born incomplete?  If so, do they believe that knowledge of the Jesus stories, as told in the Bible, can make them complete?

Suppose humans have been telling each other stories for the past 100,000 years.  Were those people all incomplete until they started telling each other the Bible stories about Jesus?

I do not consider myself a “christian” in the denoted sense of that word in today’s culture.  So I can’t answer your question from that POV.  I can say that in my forty or so years as an atheist, I didn’t think I was born incomplete.  Do you?

As a believer now, I can’t really say that I feel any more complete than before.  I can say that I feel more knowledgeable, but then again, I learn something new almost every day, so I’m continuing to become more knowledgeable.  I don’t subscribe to any theology, and have as little use for theology as I have for philosophy.  However, I do suppose that story telling has been a part of human culture for a great many generations.

On the other hand, while such is a matter of interest, it is not a matter of concern.  My goals are rather simple; do the most good that I can, for as many as I can, for as long as I can.  That’s about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c9-poC5HGw&fbclid=IwAR3LCa4Z1l0TTYS8PG9aS4zgrgRfDwb8dyBXL-if4LpSAjw5BRE4ySIQ7tY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8p8mYP_5A

[ Edited: 24 December 2019 23:22 by bbearren]
 
 
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25 December 2019 09:02
 

this post moved to another topic

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 13:00 by unsmoked]
 
 
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25 December 2019 10:07
 
bbearren - 24 December 2019 11:12 PM
unsmoked - 24 December 2019 10:59 AM

Do Christians believe that they are born incomplete?  If so, do they believe that knowledge of the Jesus stories, as told in the Bible, can make them complete?

Suppose humans have been telling each other stories for the past 100,000 years.  Were those people all incomplete until they started telling each other the Bible stories about Jesus?

I do not consider myself a “christian” in the denoted sense of that word in today’s culture.  So I can’t answer your question from that POV.  I can say that in my forty or so years as an atheist, I didn’t think I was born incomplete.  Do you?

As a believer now, I can’t really say that I feel any more complete than before.  I can say that I feel more knowledgeable, but then again, I learn something new almost every day, so I’m continuing to become more knowledgeable.  I don’t subscribe to any theology, and have as little use for theology as I have for philosophy.  However, I do suppose that story telling has been a part of human culture for a great many generations.

On the other hand, while such is a matter of interest, it is not a matter of concern.  My goals are rather simple; do the most good that I can, for as many as I can, for as long as I can.  That’s about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c9-poC5HGw&fbclid=IwAR3LCa4Z1l0TTYS8PG9aS4zgrgRfDwb8dyBXL-if4LpSAjw5BRE4ySIQ7tY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8p8mYP_5A

I highlighted a question in your post.  We know that plants are ‘born’ complete.  Giant cottonwoods outside my door grow from a seed that is smaller than the period in this sentence, and everything they need to know to be a successful giant cottonwood is ‘written’ in that seed.  Birds know how to build a nest, a design particular to their species, without any instructions except what’s written in their genes. 

A nature program that aired on PBS last night showed baby bears learning from their mother how to catch salmon.  They learn survival skills from their mother for about 2 years.  Human societies vary.  Is it the Jesuits who claim that if they have a child for 7 years they will ‘give you the man’?  You are saying here that, as an adult, your learning continues.  We’ve both read stories about feral children raised by animals.

Like other animals, humans are born incomplete and learn how to be speaking, writing, ‘socially acceptable’ people from our parents, family, or society if we are orphans.

Since at least 5 billion of us are complete human beings without Jesus, that is my own answer to the OP question.

Brother Mario has told us that, for him, life would not be worth living without the assurances he has received from his God/Jesus Catholic education that his memories, his individual self, will continue to be alive after he dies.  This is a fearful kind of dependency on external knowledge.  Would our species have survived if this had been our prevailing mental condition for the past 100,000 years?  Are external assurances of living forever necessary for our health and happiness? 

It seems the human mind hasn’t evolved to contemplate its own non-existence (like the state before we were born) so as soon as we began telling each other stories, we told stories about living forever in another realm after death.  Other species don’t contemplate existing or not existing so they don’t need or depend on an external storyteller (like the Bible) assuring them they are not going to die.

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

[ Edited: 25 December 2019 10:18 by unsmoked]
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25 December 2019 16:15
 
unsmoked - 25 December 2019 10:07 AM

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

My faith is not like the faith of Mario.

Did the capacity, the ability to learn, to retain knowledge, come from somewhere other than within the zygote from which I began my journey?  How many times have I posted that I am the confluence of genetics and experience?  I don’t feel “incomplete”.  Are those male and female cottonwoods still producing pollen and seeds?  Are they not also the confluence of genetics and experience?

I did not have a fear of death as an atheist.  I do not have a fear of death as a believer.  Again, my goals are rather simple; do the most good that I can, for as many as I can, for as long as I can.  The only time I have is now.  I could have a stroke and die in the next minute.  As for what happens after, I don’t know.

 
 
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26 December 2019 11:36
 

wrong category

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 09:43 by unsmoked]
 
 
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28 December 2019 11:03
 

wrong category

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 09:22 by unsmoked]
 
 
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30 December 2019 11:10
 

post moved to another category

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 13:05 by unsmoked]
 
 
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31 December 2019 12:03
 

wrong category

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 09:40 by unsmoked]
 
 
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01 January 2020 17:56
 

wrong category

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 09:41 by unsmoked]
 
 
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02 January 2020 11:34
 

wrong category

[ Edited: 04 January 2020 09:41 by unsmoked]
 
 
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25 March 2020 14:46
 

Is reality incomplete? 

Why do Christians need to believe impossible things in order to be happy and complete?  Why isn’t reality enough for them?

Brother Mario - 24 March 2020 02:57 PM
Read a truly great writer and thinker, such as G.K. Chesterton or C.S. Lewis, and see what a free mind looks like in all its splendor. And I don’t think I have to tell you that both these guys were quite certain about the existence of God and what his existence meant for us all.

C.S. Lewis said that, “no book is really worth reading at the age of ten which is not equally, and often far more, worth reading at the age of fifty and beyond.” Having reached my own half-century, I have decided to go back to the books that have shaped my life. One of them is, of course, Alice, which is 150 years old this year.

“I can’t believe that!” said Alice.
“Can’t you?” the Queen said in a pitying tone. “Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.”
Alice laughed. “There’s no use trying,” she said: “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”  -  Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass