West Virginia correctional cadets will be fired for Nazi salute

 
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31 December 2019 17:46
 

This bullshit.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/west-virginia-correctional-cadets-who-gave-nazi-salute-photo-will-n1108656

West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice said Monday he has approved the recommendations from a report calling for the firing of all correctional officer cadets who participated in a Nazi salute during a class photo.

. . .

According to the investigation summary, the use of the gesture began two to three weeks into training as one that the cadets have described as a “sign of respect” for an individual identified as “Instructor Byrd.”

Byrd told investigators she was unaware of the “historical or racial implications of the gesture” and reported it was “simply a greeting,” according to the report. But her statement was contradicted by multiple sources, the report released Monday says.

 
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Cheshire Cat
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31 December 2019 18:37
 

Hail Byrd!

Hail Caesar!

I wonder if these boneheads were trying to make the Roman Salute (saluto romano), but were too young and dumb to realize it was also the Nazi salute?

The Roman salute (Italian: saluto romano) is a gesture in which the arm is held out forward straight, with palm down, and fingers touching. In some versions, the arm is raised upward at an angle; in others, it is held out parallel to the ground. The former is a well known symbol of fascism that is commonly perceived to be based on a custom in ancient Rome.[1] However, no Roman text gives this description and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern Roman salute.

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Roman_salute

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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01 January 2020 08:30
 

There is no right answer in these situations. We live in a circumstance where every reported event is scrutinized and counts for a signal and symbol of something else. Our President pardons war criminals and is celebrated for doing so. Stories about relatively superficial events trigger dangerous reactions from both sides of the spectrum. Potentially violent reactionaries are watching for a signal. I think our military and law enforcement personel are, in general highly ethical and held to a standard. But it’s a fragile standard. These organizations harbor a toxic minority and have done so for a long time. None of this occurs in isolation. It’s a really bad time to be caught on camera doing this stuff.

 
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01 January 2020 10:42
 

Brick, it’s a bad idea to give the benefit of the doubt to obvious Nazi related signals from people in positions of power.  For me there is no gray area or harmless fun because that crap can get out of hand very quickly and do real physical and mental damage.  I do not want time to heal what happened under the Nazis, because I don’t want it to happen again, and joking around, playing dumb, and brushing off the largest episode of mass murder in history ain’t cool because we are still capable of repeating it.

 
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01 January 2020 11:13
 
Skipshot - 01 January 2020 10:42 AM

Brick, it’s a bad idea to give the benefit of the doubt to obvious Nazi related signals from people in positions of power.  For me there is no gray area or harmless fun because that crap can get out of hand very quickly and do real physical and mental damage.  I do not want time to heal what happened under the Nazis, because I don’t want it to happen again, and joking around, playing dumb, and brushing off the largest episode of mass murder in history ain’t cool because we are still capable of repeating it.

And so the answer is draconian laws and a dystopian world of thought police?

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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01 January 2020 22:24
 
Skipshot - 01 January 2020 10:42 AM

Brick, it’s a bad idea to give the benefit of the doubt to obvious Nazi related signals from people in positions of power.  For me there is no gray area or harmless fun because that crap can get out of hand very quickly and do real physical and mental damage.  I do not want time to heal what happened under the Nazis, because I don’t want it to happen again, and joking around, playing dumb, and brushing off the largest episode of mass murder in history ain’t cool because we are still capable of repeating it.

It’s separate things. In my mind at least. I can extend benefit of the doubt and/or forgiveness on a personal level. I don’t know these people so that wouldn’t really apply.

But even if I did forgive them that would not and should not affect how its handled with regard to upholding institutional standards. People with power and authority need to be held to their documented oaths of office. Even in the case of honest mistakes or lapses in judgment.

I agree with you. One hundred percent. We are already witnessing this barrier being tested from multiple angles. We are compelled to meet it with maximum opposing force. The stakes are far higher than mere career or reputation.

 
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02 January 2020 00:21
 

There has been much discussion about military personnel following unethical or illegal orders, and what a subordinate should do.  In the case of the cadets in the photo, I count about six or seven which did a protest salute with a Black Power fist, or saluted with the left arm, but tacit protests against obvious unethical orders is not enough, in my opinion, and apparently in the opinion of the WV governor.