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Virginia Gun Rights Rally

 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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20 January 2020 07:13
 

Let’s hope it’s non-eventful. However, Trump’s tweet seems intended to fan the flames rather than to implore restraint:

“Your 2nd Amendment is under very serious attack in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia.”

Nowhere ever in the history of this gun-obsessed country was there ever (nor will there be) a threat to the 2nd Amendment. I live in a state where a few years ago someone walked into an elementary school and slaughtered 26 people (20 of them children) and nobody ever came for the guns. In Las Vegas, 58 people were killed and over 400 were wounded in a matter of minutes. In the U.S.A. we average 1.5 mass shootings a day. Yet we can’t even get a national universal background check law passed. There is literally no tragedy large enough to evoke anything more than “thoughts and prayers.” That there needs to be a rally to protect gun rights shows how disconnected from reality some folks are. And for Trump to perpetuate the myth of “they’re coming for your guns” is grotesque and irresponsible. Especially when he knows the rally will be attended by white nationalists and militia groups and could very well be a volatile situation.

By the way, the rally is in response to the Virginia legislature proposing several gun control bills that would limit handgun purchases and require background checks, among other regulations, in the aftermath of a mass shooting in May in Virginia Beach, in which a disgruntled city employee killed 12 people in a municipal building.

Ron

[ Edited: 20 January 2020 07:16 by MrRon]
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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20 January 2020 11:14
 

Republicans have no actual grievances, so they have to manufacture them.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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20 January 2020 11:31
 
MrRon - 20 January 2020 07:13 AM

Let’s hope it’s non-eventful. However, Trump’s tweet seems intended to fan the flames rather than to implore restraint:

“Your 2nd Amendment is under very serious attack in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia.”

Nowhere ever in the history of this gun-obsessed country was there ever (nor will there be) a threat to the 2nd Amendment. I live in a state where a few years ago someone walked into an elementary school and slaughtered 26 people (20 of them children) and nobody ever came for the guns. In Las Vegas, 58 people were killed and over 400 were wounded in a matter of minutes. In the U.S.A. we average 1.5 mass shootings a day. Yet we can’t even get a national universal background check law passed. There is literally no tragedy large enough to evoke anything more than “thoughts and prayers.” That there needs to be a rally to protect gun rights shows how disconnected from reality some folks are. And for Trump to perpetuate the myth of “they’re coming for your guns” is grotesque and irresponsible. Especially when he knows the rally will be attended by white nationalists and militia groups and could very well be a volatile situation.

By the way, the rally is in response to the Virginia legislature proposing several gun control bills that would limit handgun purchases and require background checks, among other regulations, in the aftermath of a mass shooting in May in Virginia Beach, in which a disgruntled city employee killed 12 people in a municipal building.

Ron

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/07/24/only-a-quarter-of-the-country-identifies-as-republican-there-are-two-reasons-the-party-keeps-winning-anyway/

  “Only a quarter of the country identifies as Republican. There are two reasons the party keeps winning anyway.

President Trump likes to talk about the silent majority that supports him. In reality, it’s a vocal minority.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/america-s-rifle-why-so-many-people-love-ar-15-n831171

Today, one of out of every five firearms purchased in this country is an AR-style rifle, according to a NSSF estimate. Americans now own an estimated 15 million AR-15s, gun groups say. New AR-15 style guns range widely in price, from about $500 to more than $2,000.

‘Destined to be a best-seller’

unsmoked asks:  As in 2016, does Trump know where there are caches of ‘hidden’ votes?


cache  -  noun

a collection of items of the same type stored in a hidden or inaccessible place.  EXAMPLE - “an arms cache”

Similar:

hoard
store
stockpile
stock
supply
collection
accumulation
reserve
fund
arsenal
hidden treasure
treasure
nest egg
stash
amassment

verb -  store away in hiding or for future use.

Other caches of hidden votes?  Notice how Trump visits these nest eggs with his tweets to keep them warm until election day.

 

[ Edited: 20 January 2020 12:12 by unsmoked]
 
 
Skipshot
 
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21 January 2020 06:43
 

The Gun God religion is under no threat here.  Its believers like to brandish their religion as a way of keeping the fear of their god alive.  As an apostate to the religion, I’m a threat, but I do not have the pull, resources, or desire to campaign against it.

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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21 January 2020 10:14
 
Skipshot - 21 January 2020 06:43 AM

The Gun God religion is under no threat here.  Its believers like to brandish their religion as a way of keeping the fear of their god alive.  As an apostate to the religion, I’m a threat, but I do not have the pull, resources, or desire to campaign against it.

The greatest threat to the Gun God religion comes from people like 28-year-old Brenton Tarrant.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings

I’ve read that AR-15’s are very durable, with a half-life of (say) 100 years.  By the time the Brenton Tarrants and Adam Lanzas get them banned in the U.S. there might be 50 million of these America’s Favorite Guns in homes around the country.  These will be passed on to future generations like family heirlooms, like family Bibles.  By 2021 it might be illegal to own an automatic rifle - say with a fine of $10,000?

quote:

“Hand grenades are regulated under the National Firearms Act (“NFA”), a federal law first passed in 1934 and amended by the Crime Control Act of 1968. The 1968 amendments made it illegal to possess “destructive devices,” which includes grenades. (26 U.S.C. § 5801.) There’s no doubt that a live hand grenade designed for military combat fits within the law’s provisions—non-military people may not possess them.”

Patience while we wait for the next massacre?

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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21 January 2020 10:38
 

In the Gun Worshipper’s Cult, they think of themselves as patriots — great patriots.

If a coup were to take place, these “patriots” will be there, fully armed with military grade weapons, ready, willing and able to kill their fellow Americans in order to save our constitution and way of life.

I’m sure they must constantly fantasize about shooting people, mentally rehearsing for the day when they can do it for real.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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21 January 2020 13:10
 
Cheshire Cat - 21 January 2020 10:38 AM

In the Gun Worshipper’s Cult, they think of themselves as patriots — great patriots.

If a coup were to take place, these “patriots” will be there, fully armed with military grade weapons, ready, willing and able to kill their fellow Americans in order to save our constitution and way of life.

I’m sure they must constantly fantasize about shooting people, mentally rehearsing for the day when they can do it for real.

After the next massacre, the minority will again defeat the majority and vote not to do anything.  See post # 2 to see Trump’s strategy of gathering together a collection of minorities in order to defeat the majority.  (Minorities like NRA members, white supremacists, science deniers, Evangelicals, coal and oil profiteers etc.)

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2017/1228/In-Trump-era-what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-Evangelical

[ Edited: 21 January 2020 13:13 by unsmoked]
 
 
brazen4
 
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brazen4
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21 January 2020 20:56
 

Part of the issue with “doing anything” is what exactly should be done or can be done. Lawyers know this very well as they are the ones who will present cases for and against various regulations and if regs aren,t precisely written they will be shredded in court which is the only place meaningful change can actually happen. Background checks look fairly easy on the face of it but one glitch is there is no federal gun registry with teeth. How many whack jobs already have semi automatic rifles? A registry with teeth, meaning all current gun owners would be required to come forward and formally register all their guns, is a massive undertaking and would be resisted loudly and persistently. This doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done but never think it would be as easy as it initially seems. Yes, new purchases are much easier to regulate. As far as banning “assault rifles” well that is difficult as, once again, in a court you will have to precisely describe what differentiates an assualt rifle from an everyday semi-automatic deer rifle and that is maddeningly difficult. Yes, deer rifles are mostly 5 shot and so magazines could be regulated and also many assault guns can only accomodate a certain high speed (very destructive) ammo and that specific ammo could be banned. Sooo…..these are just a few of the issues that those who actually are wrestling with what to do and how to do it are trying to work out. The hard work always seems to fall on the shoulders of a few progressive lawyers, often brilliant and fearless.

 
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21 January 2020 21:46
 
brazen4 - 21 January 2020 08:56 PM

Part of the issue with “doing anything” is what exactly should be done or can be done. Lawyers know this very well as they are the ones who will present cases for and against various regulations and if regs aren,t precisely written they will be shredded in court which is the only place meaningful change can actually happen. Background checks look fairly easy on the face of it but one glitch is there is no federal gun registry with teeth. How many whack jobs already have semi automatic rifles? A registry with teeth, meaning all current gun owners would be required to come forward and formally register all their guns, is a massive undertaking and would be resisted loudly and persistently. This doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done but never think it would be as easy as it initially seems. Yes, new purchases are much easier to regulate. As far as banning “assault rifles” well that is difficult as, once again, in a court you will have to precisely describe what differentiates an assualt rifle from an everyday semi-automatic deer rifle and that is maddeningly difficult. Yes, deer rifles are mostly 5 shot and so magazines could be regulated and also many assault guns can only accomodate a certain high speed (very destructive) ammo and that specific ammo could be banned. Sooo…..these are just a few of the issues that those who actually are wrestling with what to do and how to do it are trying to work out. The hard work always seems to fall on the shoulders of a few progressive lawyers, often brilliant and fearless.

Untying the Gordian Knot of gun regulation is easier said than done - repeal the 2nd Amendment.  Treat guns like we do cars:  registration, license, insurance, training, testing, liability, etc.  You may keep all the guns you want, and your only loss is a right to guns, or more specifically, arms.

Of course, repeal is histrionically equivocated with ban and disarm, and the instant demise of America as bandits will rape and pillage while tyrants tear up the Constitution at the moment of repeal.  Apparently there is obvious historical precedence of the prophesy, but I have yet to find it.  Believers of the gun god are at a loss to explain how Americans can travel the world without their guns and not fall victim to their own prophesy when they visit a country without a right to bear arms, especially when America is the only country on the planet with such a right explicitly granted.

 
brazen4
 
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brazen4
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22 January 2020 06:53
 

I’ve liked the Idea of treating guns like we do cars since I first heard it. The few gun afficianodos Iknow agree with that approach. Many gun owners also want to “do something” to address the current madness.

 
BarfootSage
 
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22 January 2020 10:05
 

There needs to be a motion for ratification of the 2nd Amendment.  It is archaically outdated and doesn’t reflect any statistical basis for the contemporary reality in which it stands.  Asking that all guns be registered and annually or biannually renewed seems very rational.  Especially with available statistics which can attest to what form of lethal and non lethal protection is proven to be most effective for any given situation.  Utilizing existing data from the results of other countries as well.  Background checks are somewhat prejudice against people whom have existing health conditions or documented diagnosis’s.  What data is there that this can be helpful in reducing crimes associated with firearms.  Personally, I carry a can of pepper spray for protection against Grizzly bears when backpacking in the Montana Rocky Mountains as opposed to what’s more effective, a hand gun, like all other rationally minded tourist do.  No problem thus far, although I do have an Airedale Terrier who accompanies me now.

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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22 January 2020 11:58
 

There’s an interesting piece in “the Atlantic” by Garrett Epps about the gun rights gathering at the Virginia capital.

He says that the lawyers representing the gun-rights groups “argued that prohibiting rallygoers from carrying guns would violate their Second Amendment right to bear arms and their First Amendment right to free speech” because “carrying guns is a form of symbolic speech.”

Epps makes this statement at the end of the article:

The right to bear arms in political debate is not the power to speak for oneself; it is, at least implicitly, the power to silence others. It is not the right to persuade; it is the right to terrorize. It is not the right to participate in civil society; it is the power to threaten to disrupt, even to destroy it. As the historian Jill Lepore wrote in The New Yorker in 2012, “When carrying a concealed weapon for self-defense is understood not as a failure of civil society, to be mourned, but as an act of citizenship, to be vaunted, there is little civilian life left.”

https://tinyurl.com/uuc66bf

The men standing around at the Virginia capital with AR-15s were sending a message. They believe that they are the last stand against tyranny, that if a coup or a change in government that they don’t like occurs, they will be the guerrilla street fighters protecting “freedom.” Their assault weapons are the viable “symbol” of this in their minds.

To someone like myself, these guys, armed with the military style assault weapons, represent another symbol — the symbol of the unlawful mob, of the vigilante, of the armed and dangerous right-wing extremist.

 

[ Edited: 22 January 2020 12:03 by Cheshire Cat]
 
 
Vociferous Fuckweasel
 
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22 January 2020 14:41
 
MrRon - 20 January 2020 07:13 AM

Let’s hope it’s non-eventful. However, Trump’s tweet seems intended to fan the flames rather than to implore restraint:

“Your 2nd Amendment is under very serious attack in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia.”

Nowhere ever in the history of this gun-obsessed country was there ever (nor will there be) a threat to the 2nd Amendment. I live in a state where a few years ago someone walked into an elementary school and slaughtered 26 people (20 of them children) and nobody ever came for the guns. In Las Vegas, 58 people were killed and over 400 were wounded in a matter of minutes. In the U.S.A. we average 1.5 mass shootings a day. Yet we can’t even get a national universal background check law passed. There is literally no tragedy large enough to evoke anything more than “thoughts and prayers.” That there needs to be a rally to protect gun rights shows how disconnected from reality some folks are. And for Trump to perpetuate the myth of “they’re coming for your guns” is grotesque and irresponsible. Especially when he knows the rally will be attended by white nationalists and militia groups and could very well be a volatile situation.

By the way, the rally is in response to the Virginia legislature proposing several gun control bills that would limit handgun purchases and require background checks, among other regulations, in the aftermath of a mass shooting in May in Virginia Beach, in which a disgruntled city employee killed 12 people in a municipal building.

Ron


Yes, of course this is a lot of horse shit.
There’s no chance in hell the second amendment is going to be repealed.
But the corollary to this tired NRA trope is the misrepresentation of gun owners in America as a monolithic block of unhinged lunatics, rubbing one out as they fantasize about shooting their neighbors, as one poster surmised.

I am with Sam on this one; the right to defend yourself against people with violent intent is as elemental as it gets.
If this seems abstruse, just imagine being a mother trying to fend off a murderous,  jealous, asshole, ex-husband. For good measure, place this imaginary woman in my city where the response time to 911 calls can go beyond an hour.
Of course the way we go about guns is absurd and we should be much smarter about this, but if we keep falling back to these two straw-man positions, nothing will ever get done.
Most people are decent and sane. If you treat them as such, maybe, just maybe, we can work this out.

 

 

 

[ Edited: 22 January 2020 14:43 by Vociferous Fuckweasel]
 
 
BarfootSage
 
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22 January 2020 15:24
 
Vociferous Fuckweasel - 22 January 2020 02:41 PM
MrRon - 20 January 2020 07:13 AM

Let’s hope it’s non-eventful. However, Trump’s tweet seems intended to fan the flames rather than to implore restraint:

“Your 2nd Amendment is under very serious attack in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia.”

Nowhere ever in the history of this gun-obsessed country was there ever (nor will there be) a threat to the 2nd Amendment. I live in a state where a few years ago someone walked into an elementary school and slaughtered 26 people (20 of them children) and nobody ever came for the guns. In Las Vegas, 58 people were killed and over 400 were wounded in a matter of minutes. In the U.S.A. we average 1.5 mass shootings a day. Yet we can’t even get a national universal background check law passed. There is literally no tragedy large enough to evoke anything more than “thoughts and prayers.” That there needs to be a rally to protect gun rights shows how disconnected from reality some folks are. And for Trump to perpetuate the myth of “they’re coming for your guns” is grotesque and irresponsible. Especially when he knows the rally will be attended by white nationalists and militia groups and could very well be a volatile situation.

By the way, the rally is in response to the Virginia legislature proposing several gun control bills that would limit handgun purchases and require background checks, among other regulations, in the aftermath of a mass shooting in May in Virginia Beach, in which a disgruntled city employee killed 12 people in a municipal building.

Ron


Yes, of course this is a lot of horse shit.
There’s no chance in hell the second amendment is going to be repealed.
But the corollary to this tired NRA trope is the misrepresentation of gun owners in America as a monolithic block of unhinged lunatics, rubbing one out as they fantasize about shooting their neighbors, as one poster surmised.

I am with Sam on this one; the right to defend yourself against people with violent intent is as elemental as it gets.
If this seems abstruse, just imagine being a mother trying to fend off a murderous,  jealous, asshole, ex-husband. For good measure, place this imaginary woman in my city where the response time to 911 calls can go beyond an hour.
Of course the way we go about guns is absurd and we should be much smarter about this, but if we keep falling back to these two straw-man positions, nothing will ever get done.
Most people are decent and sane. If you treat them as such, maybe, just maybe, we can work this out.


“Most people are decent and sane. If you treat them as such, maybe, just maybe, we can work this out.” 
I am not sure this is an updated understanding of the plight that the masses are in.  Climate change disasters inside of a political climate of psychopathic leaders from the ‘Far Right’ are dubiously bidding for control of the dominant marketshare of subscriptions of the masses including their time.  These are volatile times. And we are in a fragile and broken (Capitalist) system.  On the world stage, we can find solace in community and being proactive in Localism.  It is better to procure clarity for yourself and loved ones as it is the only real assurance you can offer to keep your nose clean when the chips fall down and people start falling off the edge of things.  The masses are in need of community since religion is drying up.  Generally speaking ‘to each his own’ is a better basis to come from than ‘trusting your neighbor just because they’re your neighbor.’ 
Confidence is the great deterrent of the criminal mind.  Not weapons any longer.  Ever see a powerful woman walk into a room among cowardly men?  They all start shaking in their boots because she is calling their bluff without even uttering a word yet.  Honesty and a willingness to surrender is more empowering in protecting oneself generally speaking than an increasing need to brandish weapons and take up arms.  Wearing armor around town is going to elicit conflict eventually.

 

 
 
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22 January 2020 22:32
 
Vociferous Fuckweasel - 22 January 2020 02:41 PM

I am with Sam on this one; the right to defend yourself against people with violent intent is as elemental as it gets.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment does not repeal the right to self-defense.

Vociferous Fuckweasel - 22 January 2020 02:41 PM

Of course the way we go about guns is absurd and we should be much smarter about this, but if we keep falling back to these two straw-man positions, nothing will ever get done.
Most people are decent and sane. If you treat them as such, maybe, just maybe, we can work this out.

Yes, a large majority of gun owners are responsible and sane since they are not constantly shooting up the place, relative to the number of firearms in private possession.  I own a gun (down from three), and grew up with my dad storing his three rifles and two shotguns in my bedroom closet, and I have damaged hearing from shooting trap too much without ear protection.  I used to enjoy shooting immensely, but since becoming an unabashed urbanite, the desire and opportunity to shoot has faded.  So, to your point about working something out, what do you propose?

 
unsmoked
 
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23 January 2020 09:23
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/06/gun-violence-america-prompts-growing-list-countries-issue-travel-warnings/

I wonder how many tourist dollars are lost every year because of gun-violence in the U.S.?  Could the NRA be costing the economy $50 billion?  100,000 jobs?

Last evening rush hour in downtown Seattle’s major shopping area - Macy’s, Nordstroms etc. - 7 shot, I dead - https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/multiple-people-shot-downtown-seattle-police-say/IECNIRBVOZFYTAEJNDDUUQI4QI/

[ Edited: 23 January 2020 09:31 by unsmoked]
 
 
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