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bbearren
 
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bbearren
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31 January 2020 10:45
 

I did not write this.  I found the link, and here it is: So…I’m a liberal

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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31 January 2020 12:38
 

Thanks for that.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
Total Posts:  8967
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31 January 2020 13:12
 

In line with this, I was just wondering, ‘Is it OK for me to earn $1000 per hour while you work for me and earn $15 per hour?  If all my employees earned a living wage (as described in the OP article) I wouldn’t be able to earn $1000 per hour.  I’d only be able to earn $500 per hour!  What are you, a radical socialist?

[ Edited: 31 January 2020 13:25 by unsmoked]
 
 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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31 January 2020 14:09
 

Thanks bbearren!

Ron

 
DEGENERATEON
 
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DEGENERATEON
Total Posts:  352
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31 January 2020 15:34
 

Agree with most of the points.  Here’s where there is some disagreement:
2) Healthcare.  How does this affect me?  I pay a lot and my employer pays even more.  Healthcare for all sounds great, but how much more do I have to pay and how does it affect the quality of my plan?
10). The US isn’t responsible for all the the worlds problems.  Taking in a fair share of refugees is moral. 
12)  Disagree on the fascist administration.
13). Systemic racism is myth.  Racism is real, and everyone is participating (as in all races)
14). Politically correct (in the sense I take it) is fine if you want to discourage people from saying “that’s gay” - even if they intend no ill will towards homosexuals.  Politicians (or others) skirting reality and presenting a false view in order to not offend do more damage than good.
15). I’m all for more sustainable energy, but it will take some time even with government investment.  Educating workers in the coal and oil industry to transition to sustainable jobs is a fantasy in the short run.  In the long run, the workers will have been brought up in a sustainable industry.

 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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31 January 2020 15:39
 

I didn’t write it either…

but I wish I had.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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31 January 2020 17:56
 

Worthless bullshit opinion not based on any facts or reason.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
Total Posts:  9832
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01 February 2020 08:10
 

Except for the fascist part, that is a fine piece.  Trump is a fascist, but that is as far as my claim goes.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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01 February 2020 09:23
 
GAD - 31 January 2020 05:56 PM

Worthless bullshit opinion not based on any facts or reason.

Remind me again what your proposal is for fixing or replacing the U.S.‘s failing bridges?

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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01 February 2020 11:45
 

This is item #11 in the OP article:

11. I don’t believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It’s not that I want the government’s hands in everything—I just don’t trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they’re harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

Surely a ‘reputable’ American meat-packing company wouldn’t sell tins of rotten meat to the army?  https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/poison-squad/

But today, giant corporations are more ethical and we don’t need so many inspectors?  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-administration-allows-pork-slaughterhouses-have-fewer-usda-inspectors-n1055451

Big Pharma - mass opioid addiction.  In 2017 - more than 70,000 Americans died from overdose.  https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/index.html

Big Oil and Coal - contributing to Republicans election campaigns so they’ll tell the public that science is a hoax.. 

Bridges?  Infrastructure?  Consider this - the time you spend at Boston Airport waiting for your flight to Washington D.C.. . .  a high-speed train could have you there already at a fraction of the cost to you and the environment.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China 

 

 

[ Edited: 03 February 2020 10:43 by unsmoked]
 
 
TwoSeven1
 
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TwoSeven1
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03 February 2020 09:46
 

The reasons my nose wrinkles on this subject (in response to each of her points, in order):

1.  She wants government forcing people to take care of each other.
2. The fact that you need something does not give you a right to it.
3. At who’s expense?  She’s mystified why it doesn’t work here?  It doesn’t work here because we are founded on and operate on the precept of liberty, not socialism.  Capitalism is a product of liberty.
4. AOC has literally said this.  The author may not have heard it, though.  She doesn’t seem to understand that her ideaology would inevitably make this widespread.
5. She has to be honest that taxes will necessarily go up if she gets the other things she wants.  I’d rather be left alone to pursue the things that make me happy, and to help the people who I choose to help.
6. If someone can’t make enough money working the anecdotal “3 jobs,” then they have the same liberty I do to pursue something else.  If they “can’t” get a decent paying job, then for argument’s sake, she needs to prove the negative.
7. Fair enough.  As long as she doesn’t force immoral principles on me, I won’t force Christian principles on her.
8. The alphabet group already has equal rights with everyone else in America.
9. I’m fine with most of what she says here except about DACA.
10. To my knowledge, America doesn’t turn refugees away by policy, however, a refugee isn’t anyone who wants to come here.
11. She doesn’t want the government’s hand in everything, but that’s really what she thinks is needed?  She doesn’t need to spend the energy trying to convince people that she doesn’t want it.  She thinks it’s necessary.
12. She doesn’t know what fascism is.  She sees the world through a “politically-correct” lense.  Saying that Trump’s administration is comparable to Nazi Germany is tragically ignorant.
13. This is just parroting the left’s narrative.  If she wants to change minds she could start by seeking to prove that we have systemic racism and mysogyny in America, instead of assuming that people on the right agree that it even exists.  Must be hard to live with the belief that so many people are victims to everyone else.
14. If she wants to do “better” in her personal life, then that’s her freedom.  I don’t care either way.  I don’t care about her opinions on what is “better.”
15. The problem here is that, for a variety of reasons, coal and oil aren’t going anywhere.  I also don’t think she is aware that Americans have the freedom to pursue education on their own volition.

 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
Total Posts:  1433
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03 February 2020 12:36
 
GAD - 31 January 2020 05:56 PM

Worthless bullshit opinion not based on any facts or reason.

Hey GAD, I’ll bet you’ll like this post:

https://medium.com/@georgembrenckle/the-devil-is-in-the-details-4507c62daee8

Of course, if the original author, Lori Gallagher Witt, had written her letter with the idea of answering all the questions posed in this fellow Brenckle’s blog, her article would have turned into a hundred page dissertation with pages of footnotes, boring as hell, which no one would ever have read.

There’s a lot to be said for brevity.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  18004
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03 February 2020 17:23
 
Cheshire Cat - 03 February 2020 12:36 PM
GAD - 31 January 2020 05:56 PM

Worthless bullshit opinion not based on any facts or reason.

Hey GAD, I’ll bet you’ll like this post:

https://medium.com/@georgembrenckle/the-devil-is-in-the-details-4507c62daee8

Of course, if the original author, Lori Gallagher Witt, had written her letter with the idea of answering all the questions posed in this fellow Brenckle’s blog, her article would have turned into a hundred page dissertation with pages of footnotes, boring as hell, which no one would ever have read.

There’s a lot to be said for brevity.

Wrong! I LOVED it!!!!

He kills its, but my way was far more efficient, and tomorrow will bring another 10000 worthless bullshit opinion manifestos not based on any facts or reason, who has the time to deal with that much bullshit.

 
 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
Total Posts:  1982
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04 February 2020 10:50
 

I could probably address each of your points, but here are the most salient ones:

TwoSeven1 - 03 February 2020 09:46 AM

The reasons my nose wrinkles on this subject (in response to each of her points, in order):

1.  She wants government forcing people to take care of each other.
Not sure if “forcing people to take care of each other” is what she has in mind. It’s more about recognizing where there is neglect and then taking remedial action.
Besides, I wonder what Jesus would say about taking care of each other. Seems like it would be THE most Christian thing to do, no? (and I bring that up because I know you are a devout Christian) 

2. The fact that you need something does not give you a right to it.
You minimize the problem by characterizing healthcare as a mere “something” that we may or may not desire according to our whims. EVERYBODY will require healthcare at some point in their lives. And the outrageous costs of healthcare extend beyond the individual and make it a societal problem. If anything should be a right in this country, then it’s hard to argue that something like basic healthcare (I repeat – *BASIC* healthcare) for all our citizens should not be. There’s no reason that the U.S. should be the only country of the 33 developed nations that does not have some sort of universal healthcare. 

3. At who’s expense?  We can pump trillions of dollars into endless wars. We can afford to slash corporate tax rates almost in half and give tax breaks to the wealthiest individuals. Why does nobody question “at whose expense” when it comes to those things? We just need to reprioritize. 

4. AOC has literally said this. 
Where did AOC say that “your money should be taken from you and given to people who don’t want to work”?

5. She has to be honest that taxes will necessarily go up if she gets the other things she wants.  I’d rather be left alone to pursue the things that make me happy, and to help the people who I choose to help.
If any proposed tax increases only affected wealthy corporations and individuals (millionaires/billionaires), would you be OK with that? 

7. Fair enough.  As long as she doesn’t force immoral principles on me, I won’t force Christian principles on her.
Why would she force “immoral” principles on you? Are you implying that anything that’s non-Christian is immoral by default?

11. She doesn’t want the government’s hand in everything, but that’s really what she thinks is needed?  She doesn’t need to spend the energy trying to convince people that she doesn’t want it.  She thinks it’s necessary.
See this fascinating PBS special and then tell me with a straight face that it isn’t necessary to guard against the “profits over people” mentality that corporations can so easily succumb to:

https://www.pbs.org/video/the-poison-squad-5sf93j/

13. This is just parroting the left’s narrative.  If she wants to change minds she could start by seeking to prove that we have systemic racism and mysogyny in America, instead of assuming that people on the right agree that it even exists.  Must be hard to live with the belief that so many people are victims to everyone else.
We have a racist and misogynist President as we speak. If that’s not a product of systemic racism and misogyny then I don’t know what is.  

Ron

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
Total Posts:  8967
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
04 February 2020 10:54
 
Cheshire Cat - 03 February 2020 12:36 PM
GAD - 31 January 2020 05:56 PM

Worthless bullshit opinion not based on any facts or reason.

There’s a lot to be said for brevity.

“More words count less.”  -  Zen

For example, when you hear that Paula White is Trump’s spiritual advisor in the White House, what else do you need to know before voting in 2020?

 

 
 
TwoSeven1
 
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TwoSeven1
Total Posts:  386
Joined  18-12-2018
 
 
 
04 February 2020 12:23
 
MrRon - 04 February 2020 10:50 AM

I could probably address each of your points, but here are the most salient ones:

TwoSeven1 - 03 February 2020 09:46 AM

The reasons my nose wrinkles on this subject (in response to each of her points, in order):

1.  She wants government forcing people to take care of each other.
Not sure if “forcing people to take care of each other” is what she has in mind. It’s more about recognizing where there is neglect and then taking remedial action.
Besides, I wonder what Jesus would say about taking care of each other. Seems like it would be THE most Christian thing to do, no? (and I bring that up because I know you are a devout Christian) 

2. The fact that you need something does not give you a right to it.
You minimize the problem by characterizing healthcare as a mere “something” that we may or may not desire according to our whims. EVERYBODY will require healthcare at some point in their lives. And the outrageous costs of healthcare extend beyond the individual and make it a societal problem. If anything should be a right in this country, then it’s hard to argue that something like basic healthcare (I repeat – *BASIC* healthcare) for all our citizens should not be. There’s no reason that the U.S. should be the only country of the 33 developed nations that does not have some sort of universal healthcare. 

3. At who’s expense?  We can pump trillions of dollars into endless wars. We can afford to slash corporate tax rates almost in half and give tax breaks to the wealthiest individuals. Why does nobody question “at whose expense” when it comes to those things? We just need to reprioritize. 

4. AOC has literally said this. 
Where did AOC say that “your money should be taken from you and given to people who don’t want to work”?

5. She has to be honest that taxes will necessarily go up if she gets the other things she wants.  I’d rather be left alone to pursue the things that make me happy, and to help the people who I choose to help.
If any proposed tax increases only affected wealthy corporations and individuals (millionaires/billionaires), would you be OK with that? 

7. Fair enough.  As long as she doesn’t force immoral principles on me, I won’t force Christian principles on her.
Why would she force “immoral” principles on you? Are you implying that anything that’s non-Christian is immoral by default?

11. She doesn’t want the government’s hand in everything, but that’s really what she thinks is needed?  She doesn’t need to spend the energy trying to convince people that she doesn’t want it.  She thinks it’s necessary.
See this fascinating PBS special and then tell me with a straight face that it isn’t necessary to guard against the “profits over people” mentality that corporations can so easily succumb to:

https://www.pbs.org/video/the-poison-squad-5sf93j/

13. This is just parroting the left’s narrative.  If she wants to change minds she could start by seeking to prove that we have systemic racism and mysogyny in America, instead of assuming that people on the right agree that it even exists.  Must be hard to live with the belief that so many people are victims to everyone else.
We have a racist and misogynist President as we speak. If that’s not a product of systemic racism and misogyny then I don’t know what is.  

Ron

“Not sure if ‘forcing people to take care of each other’ is what she has in mind. It’s more about recognizing where there is neglect and then taking remedial action.?Besides, I wonder what Jesus would say about taking care of each other. Seems like it would be THE most Christian thing to do, no? (and I bring that up because I know you are a devout Christian)”  Regardless of what she has in mind, she is implying that government is the means to the end.  You refer to my beliefs like you have some sort of ammunition against me, or that my beliefs are in conflict.  What I believe about caring for the poor and needy is not affected by my belief that we need limited government in order to have liberty.  Where in the Bible am I told to increase government in order to care for the poor and needy?

“You minimize the problem by characterizing healthcare as a mere ‘something’ that we may or may not desire according to our whims.”  Interpret my statements as you will, but it would be more gratifying to me if you would take the things I say more literally.  A need is not the same thing as a right.

“We just need to reprioritize.”  I suppose this issue comes down to how we want our taxes used.  I don’t want my taxes used to provide “free” education.

I watched an interview a while back where she discussed that she was in favor of giving money to people who don’t want to work, but I can’t find it at this time.  You’ll have to forgive me for not being able to produce the video, but hopefully this will suffice to highlight my point -

https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/02/ocasio-cortez-including-paying-those-unwilling-to-work-in-green-new-deal-faqs-was-an-admission-not-a-mistake/

“If any proposed tax increases only affected wealthy corporations and individuals (millionaires/billionaires), would you be OK with that?”  No.  I’m not in favor of tax increases for anyone.

“Why would she force ‘immoral’ principles on you? Are you implying that anything that’s non-Christian is immoral by default?”  If she is in favor of government-funded abortion, government-funded sex-change surgery, government-funded puberty blockers, forced-use of preferred gender pronouns, etc., then she is forcing immoral principles on me.  If she isn’t in favor of the government providing/enforcing those things, then we have no problem in this context.  To your other question:  No, I am not implying that every non-Christian thing is immoral.

“See this fascinating PBS special and then tell me with a straight face that it isn’t necessary to guard against the ‘profits over people’ mentality that corporations can so easily succumb to:”  I don’t need to see a PBS special to know reality.  I have no problem with sharper punishments for corporations proven to be causing bodily harm to people, or proven to be breaking existing laws.  I have a problem with the government’s umbrella of authority expanding.

“We have a racist and misogynist President as we speak.”  Prove it.

 
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