Mental Effort

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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26 May 2020 12:19
 

People don’t pressure their heart, stomach, kidneys etc. so why do they pressure their brain?  They think the brain can pressure itself?  They think they are two entities?  A me that is pressuring something that isn’t me?

 
 
Best Boy
 
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Best Boy
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27 May 2020 11:43
 
unsmoked - 26 May 2020 12:19 PM

People don’t pressure their heart, stomach, kidneys etc. so why do they pressure their brain?  They think the brain can pressure itself?  They think they are two entities?  A me that is pressuring something that isn’t me?

Smokie, I’m not sure what you mean by pressuring those organs, but I can assure you, Trumpers don’t pressure their brains one bit.

 

 
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27 May 2020 12:13
 
Q - 27 May 2020 11:43 AM
unsmoked - 26 May 2020 12:19 PM

People don’t pressure their heart, stomach, kidneys etc. so why do they pressure their brain?  They think the brain can pressure itself?  They think they are two entities?  A me that is pressuring something that isn’t me?

Smokie, I’m not sure what you mean by pressuring those organs, but I can assure you, Trumpers don’t pressure their brains one bit.

 

Right.  January 2017 - Let’s get rid of Obama’s stupid pandemic preparations.  https://couriernewsroom.com/2020/04/14/obama-prepared-for-a-potential-pandemic-trump-gutted-his-work/

 
 
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28 May 2020 11:58
 

I recall a lecture by philosopher, Alan Watts, where he said that people hold tension in their bodies and mistake this sensation as feedback for their true selves.

For example, when a teacher in grammar school scolds a student by saying, “pay attention,” the child automatically tenses his body and furrows his brow. This tension translates in the child’s mind as, “I’m concentrating and trying really hard.”

Throughout a lifetime, unless you realize the futility of this body tension and the fact that it doesn’t help one do anything, people come to subconsciously equate this feeling of tension with their egos: “If I feel tense, then I’m really present, in charge, and in control of myself.”

This couldn’t be farther from the truth.

 
 
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29 May 2020 10:39
 
Cheshire Cat - 28 May 2020 11:58 AM

I recall a lecture by philosopher, Alan Watts, where he said that people hold tension in their bodies and mistake this sensation as feedback for their true selves.

For example, when a teacher in grammar school scolds a student by saying, “pay attention,” the child automatically tenses his body and furrows his brow. This tension translates in the child’s mind as, “I’m concentrating and trying really hard.”

Throughout a lifetime, unless you realize the futility of this body tension and the fact that it doesn’t help one do anything, people come to subconsciously equate this feeling of tension with their egos: “If I feel tense, then I’m really present, in charge, and in control of myself.”

This couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Most don’t notice that insights/creative ideas ‘come to mind’ without effort.  Wrestling with a problem (mental effort) we give up, forget about it and go for a walk   Eureka! 

eureka  -  exclamation
a cry of joy or satisfaction when one finds or discovers something.
“The answer hit me. “Eureka!” I cried”

 
 
burt
 
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burt
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29 May 2020 10:51
 
unsmoked - 29 May 2020 10:39 AM
Cheshire Cat - 28 May 2020 11:58 AM

I recall a lecture by philosopher, Alan Watts, where he said that people hold tension in their bodies and mistake this sensation as feedback for their true selves.

For example, when a teacher in grammar school scolds a student by saying, “pay attention,” the child automatically tenses his body and furrows his brow. This tension translates in the child’s mind as, “I’m concentrating and trying really hard.”

Throughout a lifetime, unless you realize the futility of this body tension and the fact that it doesn’t help one do anything, people come to subconsciously equate this feeling of tension with their egos: “If I feel tense, then I’m really present, in charge, and in control of myself.”

This couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Most don’t notice that insights/creative ideas ‘come to mind’ without effort.  Wrestling with a problem (mental effort) we give up, forget about it and go for a walk   Eureka! 

eureka  -  exclamation
a cry of joy or satisfaction when one finds or discovers something.
“The answer hit me. “Eureka!” I cried”

But without the earlier effort, the eureka wouldn’t happen. A potter has to make a cup before drinking the tea.

 
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29 May 2020 11:59
 
burt - 29 May 2020 10:51 AM
unsmoked - 29 May 2020 10:39 AM
Cheshire Cat - 28 May 2020 11:58 AM

I recall a lecture by philosopher, Alan Watts, where he said that people hold tension in their bodies and mistake this sensation as feedback for their true selves.

For example, when a teacher in grammar school scolds a student by saying, “pay attention,” the child automatically tenses his body and furrows his brow. This tension translates in the child’s mind as, “I’m concentrating and trying really hard.”

Throughout a lifetime, unless you realize the futility of this body tension and the fact that it doesn’t help one do anything, people come to subconsciously equate this feeling of tension with their egos: “If I feel tense, then I’m really present, in charge, and in control of myself.”

This couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Most don’t notice that insights/creative ideas ‘come to mind’ without effort.  Wrestling with a problem (mental effort) we give up, forget about it and go for a walk   Eureka! 

eureka  -  exclamation
a cry of joy or satisfaction when one finds or discovers something.
“The answer hit me. “Eureka!” I cried”

But without the earlier effort, the eureka wouldn’t happen. A potter has to make a cup before drinking the tea.

If that’s the case, during the ‘effort phase’ of tackling a question or a problem, does the brain know when to turn it over to the effortless phase?  In the case of a Zen koan, does the brain know when it doesn’t have the answer so it doesn’t waste effort looking for it?

That is, how long does it take for the mind to realize that it doesn’t know the answer and so stop pressuring itself?  (In this topic, the mind isn’t making something, like a cup.  It is trying to solve a problem or answer a question).

[ Edited: 29 May 2020 12:45 by unsmoked]
 
 
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29 May 2020 12:50
 
unsmoked - 29 May 2020 11:59 AM
burt - 29 May 2020 10:51 AM
unsmoked - 29 May 2020 10:39 AM
Cheshire Cat - 28 May 2020 11:58 AM

I recall a lecture by philosopher, Alan Watts, where he said that people hold tension in their bodies and mistake this sensation as feedback for their true selves.

For example, when a teacher in grammar school scolds a student by saying, “pay attention,” the child automatically tenses his body and furrows his brow. This tension translates in the child’s mind as, “I’m concentrating and trying really hard.”

Throughout a lifetime, unless you realize the futility of this body tension and the fact that it doesn’t help one do anything, people come to subconsciously equate this feeling of tension with their egos: “If I feel tense, then I’m really present, in charge, and in control of myself.”

This couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Most don’t notice that insights/creative ideas ‘come to mind’ without effort.  Wrestling with a problem (mental effort) we give up, forget about it and go for a walk   Eureka! 

eureka  -  exclamation
a cry of joy or satisfaction when one finds or discovers something.
“The answer hit me. “Eureka!” I cried”

But without the earlier effort, the eureka wouldn’t happen. A potter has to make a cup before drinking the tea.

If that’s the case, during the ‘effort phase’ of tackling a question or a problem, does the brain know when to turn it over to the effortless phase?  In the case of a Zen koan, does the brain know when it doesn’t have the answer so it doesn’t waste effort looking for it?

There’s a famous quote by Louis Pasteur which goes: “Chance favors the prepared mind.”

I think this in line with where this thread has gone. The conscious mind turns over the problem again and again, weighing the options, seeking alternatives. Then, the subconscious mind processes this information “off line,” so to speak. Eventually a solution rises to the conscious mind, solving the problem.

We are mysteries to our own selves.

 
 
Best Boy
 
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29 May 2020 13:47
 
unsmoked - 29 May 2020 11:59 AM

That is, how long does it take for the mind to realize that it doesn’t know the answer and so stop pressuring itself?  (In this topic, the mind isn’t making something, like a cup.  It is trying to solve a problem or answer a question).

When the teacher commands, “Pencils down!”

Cat seems to have provided an adequate answer, but here’s something Smokie, which might expand on it.

“So if you ever make the decision between two alternatives, consciousness is the way to go. But if you have to make a decision between many alternatives, the unconscious often leads you to more satisfactory solutions.” Dr Stanislas Dehaene (about 18:40 in) is particularly interesting, I think.

 
burt
 
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29 May 2020 15:11
 
unsmoked - 29 May 2020 11:59 AM
burt - 29 May 2020 10:51 AM
unsmoked - 29 May 2020 10:39 AM
Cheshire Cat - 28 May 2020 11:58 AM

I recall a lecture by philosopher, Alan Watts, where he said that people hold tension in their bodies and mistake this sensation as feedback for their true selves.

For example, when a teacher in grammar school scolds a student by saying, “pay attention,” the child automatically tenses his body and furrows his brow. This tension translates in the child’s mind as, “I’m concentrating and trying really hard.”

Throughout a lifetime, unless you realize the futility of this body tension and the fact that it doesn’t help one do anything, people come to subconsciously equate this feeling of tension with their egos: “If I feel tense, then I’m really present, in charge, and in control of myself.”

This couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Most don’t notice that insights/creative ideas ‘come to mind’ without effort.  Wrestling with a problem (mental effort) we give up, forget about it and go for a walk   Eureka! 

eureka  -  exclamation
a cry of joy or satisfaction when one finds or discovers something.
“The answer hit me. “Eureka!” I cried”

But without the earlier effort, the eureka wouldn’t happen. A potter has to make a cup before drinking the tea.

If that’s the case, during the ‘effort phase’ of tackling a question or a problem, does the brain know when to turn it over to the effortless phase?  In the case of a Zen koan, does the brain know when it doesn’t have the answer so it doesn’t waste effort looking for it?

That is, how long does it take for the mind to realize that it doesn’t know the answer and so stop pressuring itself?  (In this topic, the mind isn’t making something, like a cup.  It is trying to solve a problem or answer a question).

Ah, but the way a mind works in these cases, at least in my case, is making a cup, at least metaphorically, It’s in a sense establishing a context that develops an attractive potential for the answer to appear. It’s pattern recognition, setting up a part of a pattern to the point where the rest pops up. What’s needed is knowing this and taking the time to allow it to happen rather than continuing to push.

 
unsmoked
 
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30 May 2020 11:01
 

We use the expression - ‘to rack one’s brains’, meaning to think very hard trying to remember something or solve a problem. 

Here in the West, was Bo-Peep our first exposure to this topic?

Little Bo-Peep has lost her sheep,
And can’t tell where to find them;
Leave them alone, and they’ll come home,
Bringing their tails behind them.

I wonder what percentage of the population knows how to stop racking their brains, forget it, and go for a walk.  How many persist toward a burnout?

quote:  “Job burnout is a special type of work-related stress — a state of physical or emotional exhaustion that also involves a sense of reduced accomplishment and loss of personal identity. “Burnout” isn’t a medical diagnosis.”

 

[ Edited: 30 May 2020 11:10 by unsmoked]
 
 
burt
 
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30 May 2020 23:40
 
unsmoked - 30 May 2020 11:01 AM

We use the expression - ‘to rack one’s brains’, meaning to think very hard trying to remember something or solve a problem. 

Here in the West, was Bo-Peep our first exposure to this topic?

Little Bo-Peep has lost her sheep,
And can’t tell where to find them;
Leave them alone, and they’ll come home,
Bringing their tails behind them.

I wonder what percentage of the population knows how to stop racking their brains, forget it, and go for a walk.  How many persist toward a burnout?

quote:  “Job burnout is a special type of work-related stress — a state of physical or emotional exhaustion that also involves a sense of reduced accomplishment and loss of personal identity. “Burnout” isn’t a medical diagnosis.”

Great deal of stretching involved in the rack. Often pulled joints out of their sockets. Time is out of joint.

 
unsmoked
 
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04 June 2020 12:20
 

“Bring the ten thousand things to rest, let the mind rest at peace.”

A relaxed mind is better able to perform tasks just as a relaxed stomach is better able to digest food.  In this sense, ‘relaxed’ doesn’t mean torpor or lethargy.