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Political Correctness

 
lynmc
 
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lynmc
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18 July 2020 17:43
 

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/18/political-correctness-destroying-america/

Much has been said on this forum about left-wing political correctness and the “cancel culture”.  However, right-wing and establishment political correctness seems as bad if not worse.  This article doesn’t even get into all the efforts to stifle speech on Palestinian rights or history (see e.g. https://mondoweiss.net/2020/07/bari-weiss-leaves-the-nyt-and-thats-bad-for-zionists/), or news which never gets reported because it doesn’t fit the mainstream narrative.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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18 July 2020 19:13
 

I think the difference is that the Right doesn’t seem to “devour its own” the way the Left does.

There’s more to the Bari Weiss story than meets the eye. Here’s more from Consortium News.

But there may have been more to Weiss’ dramatic resignation than her revulsion with the “illiberal” culture of a paper that had recruited her and several neocon allies. A closer look at the events surrounding her departure suggests she likely omitted some critical details about her toxic presence inside the paper, and may have staged her resignation to drum up publicity for her next move.

It sounds to me like the allegations against her have more substance than the usual “cancel culture” accusations (“J’Accuse!”). Unfortunately, the Left’s deserved reputation for excessively accusing its own of laughable “wokeness” transgressions made it possible for Weiss to get away with her publicity stunt. They cried wolf too many times; in Weiss they finally have an actual wolf.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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19 July 2020 07:31
 

Step one is to acknowledge that extremists at either end of any spectrum can go too far.

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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19 July 2020 11:45
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 18 July 2020 07:13 PM

I think the difference is that the Right doesn’t seem to “devour its own” the way the Left does.

The Curious Case of Jeff Sessions would seem to disagree with you.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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19 July 2020 16:49
 
weird buffalo - 19 July 2020 11:45 AM
Antisocialdarwinist - 18 July 2020 07:13 PM

I think the difference is that the Right doesn’t seem to “devour its own” the way the Left does.

The Curious Case of Jeff Sessions would seem to disagree with you.

Yeah, I don’t know if I agree. I’m thinking of the trivial things the left reacts to, like saying “All lives matter” instead of “Black lives matter.” Or wearing blackface twenty years ago—things like that. Sessions got on the wrong side of the president for recusing himself from the Russia collusion investigation. That seems more substantial to me, more like Weiss drawing criticism for her support of Zionism.

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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19 July 2020 17:01
 

Someone following standard ethical practices of their job is “substantial”?

I think that says something right there.

The other thing I’d point out is that the right tends to just fall in line, while the left has more disagreements.  Colbert had a funny joke the other night about Ted Cruz.  The joke was that if we’re going to get Cruz to like masks, we’ll have to call him a liar, talk about how ugly his wife is, and accuse his dad of killing JFK.  Once Trump got the nomination officially, he stopped speaking out against Trump, and after the election he’s said nothing but nice things.  Part of why you don’t see this as much on the Right is everyone just obeys whoever is in charge of the party.

[ Edited: 19 July 2020 17:15 by weird buffalo]
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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19 July 2020 18:26
 
weird buffalo - 19 July 2020 05:01 PM

Someone following standard ethical practices of their job is “substantial”?

I think that says something right there.

The other thing I’d point out is that the right tends to just fall in line, while the left has more disagreements.  Colbert had a funny joke the other night about Ted Cruz.  The joke was that if we’re going to get Cruz to like masks, we’ll have to call him a liar, talk about how ugly his wife is, and accuse his dad of killing JFK.  Once Trump got the nomination officially, he stopped speaking out against Trump, and after the election he’s said nothing but nice things.  Part of why you don’t see this as much on the Right is everyone just obeys whoever is in charge of the party.

I’d say it’s a lot more substantial than wearing blackface twenty years ago. Absolutely. Not saying I agree with Trump’s decision (or Weiss’s coworkers’ criticism of her), but neither of those reactions strikes me as trivial bullshit like “cancelling” someone for saying “all lives matter.”

And yes, I agree the Right’s tendency to fall in line like “Good Germans” is problematic—at least for those who aren’t with them. (You’re arguing both sides of the issue now.) But the Left’s tendency to go after each other for trivial nonsense strikes me as way more self destructive. Wouldn’t somewhere in between those two extremes be preferable?

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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19 July 2020 18:42
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 19 July 2020 06:26 PM
weird buffalo - 19 July 2020 05:01 PM

Someone following standard ethical practices of their job is “substantial”?

I think that says something right there.

The other thing I’d point out is that the right tends to just fall in line, while the left has more disagreements.  Colbert had a funny joke the other night about Ted Cruz.  The joke was that if we’re going to get Cruz to like masks, we’ll have to call him a liar, talk about how ugly his wife is, and accuse his dad of killing JFK.  Once Trump got the nomination officially, he stopped speaking out against Trump, and after the election he’s said nothing but nice things.  Part of why you don’t see this as much on the Right is everyone just obeys whoever is in charge of the party.

I’d say it’s a lot more substantial than wearing blackface twenty years ago. Absolutely. Not saying I agree with Trump’s decision (or Weiss’s coworkers’ criticism of her), but neither of those reactions strikes me as trivial bullshit like “cancelling” someone for saying “all lives matter.”

And yes, I agree the Right’s tendency to fall in line like “Good Germans” is problematic—at least for those who aren’t with them. (You’re arguing both sides of the issue now.) But the Left’s tendency to go after each other for trivial nonsense strikes me as way more self destructive. Wouldn’t somewhere in between those two extremes be preferable?

We should know what our “leaders” value before we vote them in, and we should hold them to behaving consistently the values they claim. And no vague, ambiguous values like “family values”. Real values like:

- a healthy, sustained environment
- a good, affordable healthcare system for all
- equal opportunities

 

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 July 2020 08:16
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 19 July 2020 06:26 PM
weird buffalo - 19 July 2020 05:01 PM

Someone following standard ethical practices of their job is “substantial”?

I think that says something right there.

The other thing I’d point out is that the right tends to just fall in line, while the left has more disagreements.  Colbert had a funny joke the other night about Ted Cruz.  The joke was that if we’re going to get Cruz to like masks, we’ll have to call him a liar, talk about how ugly his wife is, and accuse his dad of killing JFK.  Once Trump got the nomination officially, he stopped speaking out against Trump, and after the election he’s said nothing but nice things.  Part of why you don’t see this as much on the Right is everyone just obeys whoever is in charge of the party.

I’d say it’s a lot more substantial than wearing blackface twenty years ago. Absolutely. Not saying I agree with Trump’s decision (or Weiss’s coworkers’ criticism of her), but neither of those reactions strikes me as trivial bullshit like “cancelling” someone for saying “all lives matter.”

And yes, I agree the Right’s tendency to fall in line like “Good Germans” is problematic—at least for those who aren’t with them. (You’re arguing both sides of the issue now.) But the Left’s tendency to go after each other for trivial nonsense strikes me as way more self destructive. Wouldn’t somewhere in between those two extremes be preferable?

But “cancelling” isn’t extreme.  Extreme would be jailing someone for black-face.  Not buying their comedy album seems to be an appropriate level of consequence.  They aren’t entitled to you buying their album.

 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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20 July 2020 11:51
 

Indeed. The strident right wing pundit isn’t offended by political correctness and cancel culture and deplatforming because it marginalizes people or hurts businesses or sabotages conversations (it certainly does do all of this)

They are offended because they invented this stuff and they don’t like anyone else gaining leverage from their tactics. How many will utter dead giveaway phrases like ‘marxism is a religion’ or something similar? It’s not even subtle. They have had a monopoly on cultural extortion for centuries. Of course they want to keep it.

 

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 July 2020 17:23
 

“Cancel culture” is literally the marketplace at work.  I find it fascinating that people who at first blush seem to consider capitalism and free markets to be inherently good things, dislike it when people they don’t like use those exact same mechanisms.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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20 July 2020 17:29
 

I heard about this bit of PC fluff yesterday on CNN.

The food chain, Trader Joe’s, was petitioned by 2800 do-gooders and busybodies, who, apparently, had nothing better to do than to look very, very hard for something to be offended by.

One of them set up a petition on Change.org, which found the packaging names of certain products carried by TJs offensive, because it “perpetuates harmful stereotypes.”

The petition adds: “The Trader Joe’s branding is racist because it exoticizes other cultures — it presents ‘Joe’ as the default ‘normal’ and the other characters falling outside of it…”

https://tinyurl.com/yy2rko6w

Some of the terribly offensive product names are, (Warning! Micro Aggressions Ahead!):

Trader Jaques’ (for French cuisine)
Trader Jose’s (for Mexican cuisine)
Arabian Joe’s (for Middle Eastern cuisine)
Trader Ming’s (for Chinese cuisine)
Trader Giotto’s (for Italian cuisine)

Gasp!

I hope none of the forum readers have a mental collapse or experience psychological or physical problems from reading this list.

Friend-Daniel, the (Trader Joe) spokesperson, stressed that the change was not in response to the petition but was already in progress.
She said the controversial approach to naming “may have been rooted in a lighthearted attempt at inclusiveness.”

Lighthearted, indeed! (Clasping my pearls).

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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20 July 2020 17:40
 
weird buffalo - 20 July 2020 08:16 AM
Antisocialdarwinist - 19 July 2020 06:26 PM
weird buffalo - 19 July 2020 05:01 PM

Someone following standard ethical practices of their job is “substantial”?

I think that says something right there.

The other thing I’d point out is that the right tends to just fall in line, while the left has more disagreements.  Colbert had a funny joke the other night about Ted Cruz.  The joke was that if we’re going to get Cruz to like masks, we’ll have to call him a liar, talk about how ugly his wife is, and accuse his dad of killing JFK.  Once Trump got the nomination officially, he stopped speaking out against Trump, and after the election he’s said nothing but nice things.  Part of why you don’t see this as much on the Right is everyone just obeys whoever is in charge of the party.

I’d say it’s a lot more substantial than wearing blackface twenty years ago. Absolutely. Not saying I agree with Trump’s decision (or Weiss’s coworkers’ criticism of her), but neither of those reactions strikes me as trivial bullshit like “cancelling” someone for saying “all lives matter.”

And yes, I agree the Right’s tendency to fall in line like “Good Germans” is problematic—at least for those who aren’t with them. (You’re arguing both sides of the issue now.) But the Left’s tendency to go after each other for trivial nonsense strikes me as way more self destructive. Wouldn’t somewhere in between those two extremes be preferable?

But “cancelling” isn’t extreme.  Extreme would be jailing someone for black-face.  Not buying their comedy album seems to be an appropriate level of consequence.  They aren’t entitled to you buying their album.

But they’re eating their own! If the people getting cancelled were their opponents, I’d agree. But the people getting cancelled are on the left. One of the earliest and most egregious examples that comes immediately to mind is Al Franken.

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 July 2020 19:14
 

So, your argument is that if people are on the same side, they should not hold each other accountable to their beliefs?

 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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20 July 2020 21:48
 
weird buffalo - 20 July 2020 07:14 PM

So, your argument is that if people are on the same side, they should not hold each other accountable to their beliefs?

This is the very essence of partisanship. You get a pass on any and all bad behavior as long as you tow the party line.

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 July 2020 22:00
 

So then the disparity in behaviors would indicate that one side is being partisan, but the other is not.

 
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