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Let’s Put Our Co-Vid Cards on the Table

 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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02 August 2020 15:59
 

Most disagreement about our response to Co-Vid boils down to a central question:

How much do we as a tribe - a nation - accommodate weakness?
One’s answer to this question will determine how one interprets any statistics on the matter.

CDC statistics show more than 80% of deaths are people 65 and older.  That increases to over 92% if the 55-64 age group is included.  These are people who are already at greater risk of dying during any viral outbreak.  Sad?  Yes.  It’s sad that people die, which I’m obliged to say outright because idiots project evil onto those they disagree with.

So much talk about Co-Vid19 seems to rest on the mantras that this is “brand new” and “uncharted territory.”  Yes, it doesn’t take a genius to tell that existing viral information is always changing (thus new), and ALL new territory is uncharted, because it’s new…....

It’s as if people forget we’ve only had germ theory - what?  A couple hundred years?  It’s as if people don’t understand that the symbiotic relationship between animals and viruses has been present since there were animals to begin with.  In a bigger picture sense, it’s akin to narcissism to place such importance on this particular virus, as we only have to go back just over 100 years to point to a virus (Spanish Flu) FAR more deadly than this one.

But my primary annoyance with the media, with people who talk about this topic is the following:

It’s an issue of mindset.
The mindset is ALWAYS - “How can we hang onto our light-deprived, movement deprived, nutritionally deprived way of life while suffering the least amount of death AND enriching the richest people the most?”

Of course no one says that.

They disguise what they’re really saying with phrases like “caring about people” and “civility” and other buzzwords.  But make no mistake:  That is their agenda.

It just so happens to be the agenda of all the massive corporations who advertise on mainstream news networks.  Pure coincidence I’m sure.wink

Just turn on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. 
Wait for the commercials. 
What % of those commercials are for pharmaceutical drugs aimed at addressing symptoms of unhealthy lifestyle?
What % of those commercials are for junk, preservative laden carbs?
What % of those commercials are for alcohol and sugary, liver and immune system destroying drinks?

What’s even more hilarious is that people see no conflict of interest here.
They see no issue whatsoever with the networks shaping our opinions on how to deal with a health crisis advertising stuff that destroys our immune system.

Because if this Co-Vid19 is really such a big issue (which it objectively ISN’T, if your time window extends beyond 100 years), what would a sensible response be?  What would it look like if the agenda I outlined above wasn’t underlying the entire discussion?

It’s difficult to say, but it would be completely alien to what we’re seeing now - where it’s all about masks, mask-shaming and “social distancing”.

And the main reason why it’s so difficult to say how things SHOULD look with our response is that without the centralized information monopoly which informs what we talk and think about - Co-Vid 19 would have probably gone under the radar.

Think about it.

How many people do YOU know who have died from Co-Vid?
Not your aunt’s sister’s friend’s cousin.
I mean YOU personally…...how many do YOU know?

For the vast majority of people, that answer is 0.  And as I’ve already explained, statistically anyone you did know was already in bad shape to handle any kind of viral or life stress, whether Co-Vid came along or not.

So to put it bluntly the weak are in danger and everyone else isn’t.  So nothing has actually changed from before this all happened.  Maybe you were just living in a child’s fantasy land before.

If all you knew was what you’d seen and heard about from people you actually know in real life, would the virus have even made it on your radar?  Again, for the overwhelming majority, that answer is and honest NO.  You’d simply know someone you knew got sick and died…..which is nothing new.

So if 1 person you knew got sick and died, and that’s all you knew - would you accept tens of millions of people going on unemployment?  Would you accept Joe down the street losing his small business due to government decree?  I think not.  You’d simply move on with your life and either make healthier choices or not.


“How can we hang onto our light-deprived, movement deprived, nutritionally deprived way of life while suffering the least amount of death AND enriching the richest people the most?”

One of the best ways to do this is to propagate a phrase like “essential workers” and use it to steal from people who aren’t rich and powerful.  Notice that people never call their OWN source of income “inessential.”  I wonder why!  cool hmm  Meanwhile Jeff Bezos is going to ride out this scandal into trillionairedom.  And imagine the buyer’s market that’s out there if you’re rich.  Cheap retail space, the leverage of knowing the owner’s tenants have probably not made good on rent.  If you’re in corporate retail or corporate food service, your small business competition has just been decimated.

Imagine living in a world where you can sit inside a MacDonalds, buy a large drink and chug soda after soda all day until your piss can sweeten my coffee….........but you can’t use a local gym sauna which has been extensively studied and proven to strengthen the human immune system and help fight viruses.  You don’t have to imagine, because that world is already here - right now.  There’s a reason why people are calling it “Clown World.”

Idiot: You can’t open your barbershop because that could spread coronavirus!
Me:  But everyone’s going to the grocery store…..
Idiot:  Yeah but that’s essential!
Me:  It’s essential to spread the virus?
Idiot:  Well, we need to limit human contact so we can flatten the curve!
Me:  Then don’t come into my barbershop.  Stay home and cry yourself to sleep.
Idiot:  I won’t!  But other people shouldn’t be allowed to either!
Me:  Why?
Idiot:  Because, it’s selfish!
Me:  But it’s not selfish for you to take away someone’s livelihood and stop them from doing business with people who are knowingly and willingly taking the risk of getting sick, which has always and always will be a risk with human interaction.  Got it

The mask issue is the most hilarious part of this.  Fat people wearing masks while pushing a cart full of junk food at the grocery stores.  Sugar addicts yelling at other people to put on a mask because of “their safety,” while they themselves are wearing a non-medical grade mask.  People walking down an empty street…..with a mask on.

If you can’t see the comedy in all this, you’ll probably end up blowing your brains out - if you have any brains to begin with.  This non-medical mask charade isn’t going away any time soon.  We might as well convert to Islam - at least the way they cover themselves looks kinda cool.

And don’t even get me started on “social distancing.”  In other words, “Relegate your discourse to the corporate, monopoly services where WE can control what you’re allowed to say UNLESS you happen to be protesting our pet political causes.”  But Quad!  No one’s saying that!  Doesn’t matter.  I judge by results, not intentions.

We do not live in a “Godless society” - it’s far worse than that.  Weakness, cowardice, and obedience to the centralized information monopoly are the new Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

[ Edited: 02 August 2020 16:07 by Quadrewple]
 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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02 August 2020 23:05
 

I suspect that when future generations look back at this pandemic, they’ll see us as selfish cowards and tear down all our statues.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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03 August 2020 06:57
 

The entire country needs to get a grip and handle this coronavirus.  Then maybe Doctor Fauci can work on flattening that curveball.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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03 August 2020 07:37
 
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 06:57 AM

The entire country needs to get a grip and handle this coronavirus.  Then maybe Doctor Fauci can work on flattening that curveball.

I thought he didn’t want anyone to catch anything.

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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03 August 2020 11:33
 

Seems like at least one person isn’t playing with a full deck.

 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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03 August 2020 12:45
 
Quadrewple - 02 August 2020 03:59 PM

It’s as if people forget we’ve only had germ theory - what?  A couple hundred years?  It’s as if people don’t understand that the symbiotic relationship between animals and viruses has been present since there were animals to begin with.  In a bigger picture sense, it’s akin to narcissism to place such importance on this particular virus, as we only have to go back just over 100 years to point to a virus (Spanish Flu) FAR more deadly than this one.

The Spanish Flu killed 675,000 in the United States over a 2 year period. Covid-19 has killed about 155,000 in a 6 month period. Furthermore, the difference in the state of medicine between 1918 and 2020 is stark. Spanish Flu deaths were exacerbated by the fact that there were no vaccines to protect against influenza infection and no antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections that can be associated with influenza infections. As far as the actual death rate, the Spanish Flu is calculated to have a death rate of about 2% - the same as (or even slightly less than) Covid-19 so far. So it’s quite a stretch to claim that the Spanish Flu was FAR more deadly than this one. 

But my primary annoyance with the media, with people who talk about this topic is the following:

It’s an issue of mindset.
The mindset is ALWAYS - “How can we hang onto our light-deprived, movement deprived, nutritionally deprived way of life while suffering the least amount of death AND enriching the richest people the most?”

Of course no one says that.

They disguise what they’re really saying with phrases like “caring about people” and “civility” and other buzzwords.  But make no mistake:  That is their agenda.

It just so happens to be the agenda of all the massive corporations who advertise on mainstream news networks.  Pure coincidence I’m sure.wink

Just turn on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. 
Wait for the commercials. 
What % of those commercials are for pharmaceutical drugs aimed at addressing symptoms of unhealthy lifestyle?
What % of those commercials are for junk, preservative laden carbs?
What % of those commercials are for alcohol and sugary, liver and immune system destroying drinks?

What’s even more hilarious is that people see no conflict of interest here.
They see no issue whatsoever with the networks shaping our opinions on how to deal with a health crisis advertising stuff that destroys our immune system.

Wait, so because there are some commercials for fast food/junk food, then those networks have no right (or lack credibility) to inform or advise the public about mitigation measures during a pandemic??? Is that your position? 

Because if this Co-Vid19 is really such a big issue (which it objectively ISN’T, if your time window extends beyond 100 years),

“Objectively”?? Really now? And why should our time window have to extend back to a time when medicine was far less developed? Why not evaluate it in the present context? 

what would a sensible response be?  What would it look like if the agenda I outlined above wasn’t underlying the entire discussion?

It’s difficult to say, but it would be completely alien to what we’re seeing now - where it’s all about masks, mask-shaming and “social distancing”.

So are you saying that a sensible response to an airborne viral pandemic would not include masks and social distancing? Please explain. 

And the main reason why it’s so difficult to say how things SHOULD look with our response is that without the centralized information monopoly which informs what we talk and think about - Co-Vid 19 would have probably gone under the radar.

Think about it.

How many people do YOU know who have died from Co-Vid?
Not your aunt’s sister’s friend’s cousin.
I mean YOU personally…...how many do YOU know?

For the vast majority of people, that answer is 0.  And as I’ve already explained, statistically anyone you did know was already in bad shape to handle any kind of viral or life stress, whether Co-Vid came along or not.

So to put it bluntly the weak are in danger and everyone else isn’t.  So nothing has actually changed from before this all happened.  Maybe you were just living in a child’s fantasy land before.

Not true. There have been cases of perfectly healthy younger people contracting the virus and dying. So the old/weak aren’t the only ones in danger. Also, young and healthy people may unwittingly pass the virus on to their older relatives. This is all common knowledge. Are you being deliberately obtuse? And plenty has changed from before. Specifically, 155,000 Americans who were alive in January are now dead from a global pandemic. I would consider that a change. In fact, the real “child’s fantasy land” is to claim that nothing has actually changed.   

If all you knew was what you’d seen and heard about from people you actually know in real life, would the virus have even made it on your radar?  Again, for the overwhelming majority, that answer is and honest NO.  You’d simply know someone you knew got sick and died…..which is nothing new.

So if 1 person you knew got sick and died, and that’s all you knew - would you accept tens of millions of people going on unemployment?  Would you accept Joe down the street losing his small business due to government decree?  I think not.  You’d simply move on with your life and either make healthier choices or not.

But your hypothetical does not represent the actual state of affairs. Even though the virus may not have made it on MY personal radar, our society has the benefit of being able to collect large amounts of data and determine trends. We have something called the CDC. And the WHO. We can be informed of things that have the potential to impact us greatly. And Joe down the street temporarily losing his business is a preventive measure for the greater good of everybody. 


“How can we hang onto our light-deprived, movement deprived, nutritionally deprived way of life while suffering the least amount of death AND enriching the richest people the most?”

One of the best ways to do this is to propagate a phrase like “essential workers” and use it to steal from people who aren’t rich and powerful.  Notice that people never call their OWN source of income “inessential.”  I wonder why!  cool hmm  Meanwhile Jeff Bezos is going to ride out this scandal into trillionairedom.  And imagine the buyer’s market that’s out there if you’re rich.  Cheap retail space, the leverage of knowing the owner’s tenants have probably not made good on rent.  If you’re in corporate retail or corporate food service, your small business competition has just been decimated.

Imagine living in a world where you can sit inside a MacDonalds, buy a large drink and chug soda after soda all day until your piss can sweeten my coffee….........but you can’t use a local gym sauna which has been extensively studied and proven to strengthen the human immune system and help fight viruses.  You don’t have to imagine, because that world is already here - right now.  There’s a reason why people are calling it “Clown World.”

Idiot: You can’t open your barbershop because that could spread coronavirus!
Me:  But everyone’s going to the grocery store…..
Idiot:  Yeah but that’s essential!
Me:  It’s essential to spread the virus?
Idiot:  Well, we need to limit human contact so we can flatten the curve!
Me:  Then don’t come into my barbershop.  Stay home and cry yourself to sleep.
Idiot:  I won’t!  But other people shouldn’t be allowed to either!
Me:  Why?
Idiot:  Because, it’s selfish!
Me:  But it’s not selfish for you to take away someone’s livelihood and stop them from doing business with people who are knowingly and willingly taking the risk of getting sick, which has always and always will be a risk with human interaction.  Got it

Grocery stores are essential because people die if they don’t eat. Nobody dies if they don’t get a haircut. Furthermore, your insinuation that people go to the grocery store to “spread the virus” is totally disingenuous. You KNOW that people aren’t going to stores to intentionally spread viruses. Besides, social distancing, mask wearing, and hand sanitizing stations is a rule in most, if not every, store that I’m aware of. By contrast, personal contact – and repeated contact with multiple customers - is REQUIRED in barbershops, making those places potentially more hazardous than stores.

That being said, there is a legitimate discussion to be had about voluntarily visiting barbershops, required protocols, etc. But there is no need to mischaracterize the act of going to a grocery store.         

The mask issue is the most hilarious part of this.  Fat people wearing masks while pushing a cart full of junk food at the grocery stores.  Sugar addicts yelling at other people to put on a mask because of “their safety,” while they themselves are wearing a non-medical grade mask.  People walking down an empty street…..with a mask on.

If you can’t see the comedy in all this, you’ll probably end up blowing your brains out - if you have any brains to begin with.  This non-medical mask charade isn’t going away any time soon.  We might as well convert to Islam - at least the way they cover themselves looks kinda cool.

And don’t even get me started on “social distancing.”  In other words, “Relegate your discourse to the corporate, monopoly services where WE can control what you’re allowed to say UNLESS you happen to be protesting our pet political causes.”  But Quad!  No one’s saying that!  Doesn’t matter.  I judge by results, not intentions.

We do not live in a “Godless society” - it’s far worse than that.  Weakness, cowardice, and obedience to the centralized information monopoly are the new Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

So what exactly are you saying? Ignore the advice from the CDC and pretend like there’s no pandemic? Does compliance show “weakness, cowardice, and obedience”? Please explain.

Ron

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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03 August 2020 13:02
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 03 August 2020 07:37 AM
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 06:57 AM

The entire country needs to get a grip and handle this coronavirus.  Then maybe Doctor Fauci can work on flattening that curveball.

I thought he didn’t want anyone to catch anything.

At least someone other than Trump was making the wild pitch for a change.  We don’t need anyone touting the “demon sperm” doctor. 

He finally finds a black woman that meets his approval…and she turns out to be a total kook!

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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03 August 2020 14:06
 
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 01:02 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 03 August 2020 07:37 AM
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 06:57 AM

The entire country needs to get a grip and handle this coronavirus.  Then maybe Doctor Fauci can work on flattening that curveball.

I thought he didn’t want anyone to catch anything.

At least someone other than Trump was making the wild pitch for a change.  We don’t need anyone touting the “demon sperm” doctor. 

He finally finds a black woman that meets his approval…and she turns out to be a total kook!

Not only is she black, she’s a woman and an immigrant. Which makes you racist, misogynistic and xenophobic! At least according to the woke.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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03 August 2020 14:54
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 03 August 2020 02:06 PM
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 01:02 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 03 August 2020 07:37 AM
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 06:57 AM

The entire country needs to get a grip and handle this coronavirus.  Then maybe Doctor Fauci can work on flattening that curveball.

I thought he didn’t want anyone to catch anything.

At least someone other than Trump was making the wild pitch for a change.  We don’t need anyone touting the “demon sperm” doctor. 

He finally finds a black woman that meets his approval…and she turns out to be a total kook!

Not only is she black, she’s a woman and an immigrant. Which makes you racist, misogynistic and xenophobic! At least according to the woke.

Why paint the woke with such a broad brush, sir?  You know that thing is meant to be worn as a face mask…and not a blindfold, right?

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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04 August 2020 07:47
 

Way too much clown-show in this circus.

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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04 August 2020 08:03
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 03 August 2020 07:37 AM
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 06:57 AM

The entire country needs to get a grip and handle this coronavirus.  Then maybe Doctor Fauci can work on flattening that curveball.

I thought he didn’t want anyone to catch anything.

Does it ever occur to you to contribute something useful ?

 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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04 August 2020 10:49
 
MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

The Spanish Flu killed 675,000 in the United States over a 2 year period. Covid-19 has killed about 155,000 in a 6 month period. Furthermore, the difference in the state of medicine between 1918 and 2020 is stark. Spanish Flu deaths were exacerbated by the fact that there were no vaccines to protect against influenza infection and no antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections that can be associated with influenza infections. As far as the actual death rate, the Spanish Flu is calculated to have a death rate of about 2% - the same as (or even slightly less than) Covid-19 so far. So it’s quite a stretch to claim that the Spanish Flu was FAR more deadly than this one. 

 

First - you have to consider the population of the US then vs now.
Second, you’re missing my point - a new virus that kills more people than normal is not a novelty, not whatsoever.  Yet we have politicians and people with lots of power talking about how things will “never be the same again” - same bullshit rhetoric which people used to pass/support the Patriot Act.  I’m saying let’s frame this incident for what it actually is.

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

Of course no one says that.

What people say doesn’t matter.  I look at actions taken and actions not taken for the truth.

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

Wait, so because there are some commercials for fast food/junk food, then those networks have no right (or lack credibility) to inform or advise the public about mitigation measures during a pandemic??? Is that your position? 

Mitigation measures include not eating/consuming all the garbage that their network advertises.  You don’t think they have a lack of credibility?  Amazing.

Because if this Co-Vid19 is really such a big issue (which it objectively ISN’T, if your time window extends beyond 100 years),

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

“Objectively”?? Really now? And why should our time window have to extend back to a time when medicine was far less developed? Why not evaluate it in the present context?

I have evaluated it in the present context - vast majority of time it kills already sick and weak people….just like every virus.  Yet everyone who is healthy is demanded to make all these sacrifices, including their own livelihoods.

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

So are you saying that a sensible response to an airborne viral pandemic would not include masks and social distancing? Please explain.

It’s a question of priorities.  It is completely absurd for someone who is regularly feeding their body garbage, not getting sunlight, and not moving enough to complain about someone else not wearing a mask.  I never said people shouldn’t wear masks.  I’m pointing out how retarded peoples’ priorities are.

 

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

Not true. There have been cases of perfectly healthy younger people contracting the virus and dying. So the old/weak aren’t the only ones in danger. Also, young and healthy people may unwittingly pass the virus on to their older relatives. This is all common knowledge. Are you being deliberately obtuse? And plenty has changed from before. Specifically, 155,000 Americans who were alive in January are now dead from a global pandemic. I would consider that a change. In fact, the real “child’s fantasy land” is to claim that nothing has actually changed.

Your whole paragraph is a deflection.  How many people do you know who died from Co-Vid 19?

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

But your hypothetical does not represent the actual state of affairs. Even though the virus may not have made it on MY personal radar, our society has the benefit of being able to collect large amounts of data and determine trends. We have something called the CDC. And the WHO. We can be informed of things that have the potential to impact us greatly. And Joe down the street temporarily losing his business is a preventive measure for the greater good of everybody.

I can respect your opinion there, if you yourself have lost your income and are now on government handout, especially if you have kids to feed.  So weigh in - do you actually have skin in the game here?

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

Grocery stores are essential because people die if they don’t eat. Nobody dies if they don’t get a haircut. Furthermore, your insinuation that people go to the grocery store to “spread the virus” is totally disingenuous. You KNOW that people aren’t going to stores to intentionally spread viruses. Besides, social distancing, mask wearing, and hand sanitizing stations is a rule in most, if not every, store that I’m aware of. By contrast, personal contact – and repeated contact with multiple customers - is REQUIRED in barbershops, making those places potentially more hazardous than stores.

If keeping people safe was really so important, people would be using food co-ops, and getting groceries delivered, etc.  It’s plainly untrue that grocery stores are essential (which is a bullshit concept anyway).  And again with what peoples’ intentions are…..doesn’t matter!  I could say “YOU KNOW that people aren’t going to barbershops to intentionally spread viruses.”  An equally stupid argument.  The virus doesn’t care about intentions and it doesn’t care WHY you’re around others.  This is what I’m talking about…..absolute nonsense.

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

That being said, there is a legitimate discussion to be had about voluntarily visiting barbershops, required protocols, etc. But there is no need to mischaracterize the act of going to a grocery store.

The discussion about “required protocols” is between the customer and the service provider.  Period.  You have no business inserting yourself into that discussion any more than I do.

MrRon - 03 August 2020 12:45 PM

So what exactly are you saying? Ignore the advice from the CDC and pretend like there’s no pandemic? Does compliance show “weakness, cowardice, and obedience”? Please explain.

Ron

I never told people what to do.  I’m pointing out the lunacy and idiocy of what people are doing and are accepting.  I don’t believe I should be telling people what to do, which is what separates me from you.

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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04 August 2020 14:02
 

But you are telling people what to do.  You are saying we should sacrifice the old and the weak for the economy.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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04 August 2020 18:30
 
Brick Bungalow - 04 August 2020 08:03 AM
Antisocialdarwinist - 03 August 2020 07:37 AM
LadyJane - 03 August 2020 06:57 AM

The entire country needs to get a grip and handle this coronavirus.  Then maybe Doctor Fauci can work on flattening that curveball.

I thought he didn’t want anyone to catch anything.

Does it ever occur to you to contribute something useful ?

I doubt you’d recognize “useful” if it hit you in the face like a rubber bullet.

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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04 August 2020 18:33
 
weird buffalo - 04 August 2020 02:02 PM

But you are telling people what to do.  You are saying we should sacrifice the old and the weak for the economy.

I’ve read, and re-read what Mr. Quadrewple has to say, and I’ve come to the same conclusion you have.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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04 August 2020 19:19
 
Cheshire Cat - 04 August 2020 06:33 PM
weird buffalo - 04 August 2020 02:02 PM

But you are telling people what to do.  You are saying we should sacrifice the old and the weak for the economy.

I’ve read, and re-read what Mr. Quadrewple has to say, and I’ve come to the same conclusion you have.

Examples of telling people what to do:
- shelter in place
- wear a mask
- social distance
- shut down your nonessential business

What are some examples of telling people what to do if you’re opposed to quarantine measures? It seems to me that the default—without telling anyone to do anything—is to “sacrifice the old and weak for the economy.” So I think Quadrewple has a point. You don’t have to be opposed to quarantine measures to see that. Is it a coincidence that the least free societies—like China where the government telling people what to do is far more prevalent than in freer societies—are (apparently) the most successful in terms of slowing the spread of the virus?

 
 
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