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Where consciousness is located

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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16 October 2020 12:50
 

Nhoj, this reminds me of a film trailer I posted in the Science category - ‘The Last Head Hunter’.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWC7HbZdPLQ

The last consciousness hunter?  At one point he cries, “Where is my rabbit!?”

 
 
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unsmoked
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19 October 2020 14:28
 

Is it possible to recognize when consciousness is universal (shared by everyone) and when it is personal?  Personal consciousness involves opinion, knowledge, and other mental attributes accumulated since birth.  A Zen master might say to a student, “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

 
 
SpaceofAwareness
 
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SpaceofAwareness
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19 October 2020 20:35
 
unsmoked - 19 October 2020 02:28 PM

Is it possible to recognize when consciousness is universal (shared by everyone) and when it is personal?  Personal consciousness involves opinion, knowledge, and other mental attributes accumulated since birth.  A Zen master might say to a student, “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

What I conceive as universal consciousness is, not personal. But some people speak about experiences of non duality, or unity consciousness. I only have experience of impersonal consciousness, which still contained separation between experience and awareness. I think you should always speak from experience in these matters, however it seems there is a very conceptually reliant framework for peoples assertions of universal consciousness. I know conceptually that everything arises inside consciousness. But, I know by extension that there seem to be other points of view, and indeed seems to be things to which our experiences both depend on and are expressions of independent from us.

For that reason i cannot say at this stage that there is only oneness or universal consciousness. But, I know for a fact through experience that ones sense of being a person with personal problems, as well as being identified with the body, can fall away. But, others still remain in this, though I know that by extension those others are illusions, and there is no difference underneath the layers of the person and identity between any two people.

 
burt
 
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burt
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20 October 2020 11:02
 
SpaceofAwareness - 19 October 2020 08:35 PM
unsmoked - 19 October 2020 02:28 PM

Is it possible to recognize when consciousness is universal (shared by everyone) and when it is personal?  Personal consciousness involves opinion, knowledge, and other mental attributes accumulated since birth.  A Zen master might say to a student, “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

What I conceive as universal consciousness is, not personal. But some people speak about experiences of non duality, or unity consciousness. I only have experience of impersonal consciousness, which still contained separation between experience and awareness. I think you should always speak from experience in these matters, however it seems there is a very conceptually reliant framework for peoples assertions of universal consciousness. I know conceptually that everything arises inside consciousness. But, I know by extension that there seem to be other points of view, and indeed seems to be things to which our experiences both depend on and are expressions of independent from us.

For that reason i cannot say at this stage that there is only oneness or universal consciousness. But, I know for a fact through experience that ones sense of being a person with personal problems, as well as being identified with the body, can fall away. But, others still remain in this, though I know that by extension those others are illusions, and there is no difference underneath the layers of the person and identity between any two people.

Apply the principle of identity of indiscernibles. If there are no differences between two things they are the same thing.

 
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unsmoked
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20 October 2020 12:37
 

Buddha said, “There is seeing but no one who is seeing; hearing but no one who is hearing . . . “

A Zen master said, “If there’s a trace of the ‘I’ as small as an ant’s gas, you are not manifesting your true nature.”  These are references to universal consciousness or cosmic consciousness.  If you’re awake and clear and see or hear something with normal, effortless mind, this is it. 

“One thought about it and you fly into hell like an arrow.”  (This is a Zen insider’s hyperbole meant to point out the nano-second it takes to ‘fly’ from universal consciousness to the buzzing, chattering, knowing, conditioned mind of personal consciousness.).

Buddhist artists attempt to illustrate this state of mind.  Ideally a haiku is an observation without opinions, without likes and dislikes - just seeing.

“The Old Pond” by Matsuo Basho

An old silent pond

A frog jumps into the pond—

Splash! Silence again.

[ Edited: 20 October 2020 12:41 by unsmoked]
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SpaceofAwareness
 
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SpaceofAwareness
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20 October 2020 13:26
 
burt - 20 October 2020 11:02 AM
SpaceofAwareness - 19 October 2020 08:35 PM
unsmoked - 19 October 2020 02:28 PM

Is it possible to recognize when consciousness is universal (shared by everyone) and when it is personal?  Personal consciousness involves opinion, knowledge, and other mental attributes accumulated since birth.  A Zen master might say to a student, “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

What I conceive as universal consciousness is, not personal. But some people speak about experiences of non duality, or unity consciousness. I only have experience of impersonal consciousness, which still contained separation between experience and awareness. I think you should always speak from experience in these matters, however it seems there is a very conceptually reliant framework for peoples assertions of universal consciousness. I know conceptually that everything arises inside consciousness. But, I know by extension that there seem to be other points of view, and indeed seems to be things to which our experiences both depend on and are expressions of independent from us.

For that reason i cannot say at this stage that there is only oneness or universal consciousness. But, I know for a fact through experience that ones sense of being a person with personal problems, as well as being identified with the body, can fall away. But, others still remain in this, though I know that by extension those others are illusions, and there is no difference underneath the layers of the person and identity between any two people.

Apply the principle of identity of indiscernibles. If there are no differences between two things they are the same thing.

I know this intellectually, but not through direct experience.

Furthermore, I know that when I see the world, I am actually seeing a play within myself. I am the world and the world is me. But, that is again conceptual, not experiential.

 
burt
 
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burt
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20 October 2020 23:57
 
SpaceofAwareness - 20 October 2020 01:26 PM
burt - 20 October 2020 11:02 AM
SpaceofAwareness - 19 October 2020 08:35 PM
unsmoked - 19 October 2020 02:28 PM

Is it possible to recognize when consciousness is universal (shared by everyone) and when it is personal?  Personal consciousness involves opinion, knowledge, and other mental attributes accumulated since birth.  A Zen master might say to a student, “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

What I conceive as universal consciousness is, not personal. But some people speak about experiences of non duality, or unity consciousness. I only have experience of impersonal consciousness, which still contained separation between experience and awareness. I think you should always speak from experience in these matters, however it seems there is a very conceptually reliant framework for peoples assertions of universal consciousness. I know conceptually that everything arises inside consciousness. But, I know by extension that there seem to be other points of view, and indeed seems to be things to which our experiences both depend on and are expressions of independent from us.

For that reason i cannot say at this stage that there is only oneness or universal consciousness. But, I know for a fact through experience that ones sense of being a person with personal problems, as well as being identified with the body, can fall away. But, others still remain in this, though I know that by extension those others are illusions, and there is no difference underneath the layers of the person and identity between any two people.

Apply the principle of identity of indiscernibles. If there are no differences between two things they are the same thing.

I know this intellectually, but not through direct experience.

Furthermore, I know that when I see the world, I am actually seeing a play within myself. I am the world and the world is me. But, that is again conceptual, not experiential.

But in this world that is a play within your relative mind of concepts and language there are others who appear to be just like you. Except different. Apply the Buddhist nyte nyte idea (“not that,” “not that”) and all the relative stuff strips away until there is an undifferentiated identity having no components or characteristics. All those other folk in your imaged world (which is a construct of your mind, but that doesn’t mean that it is a creation from nothing), all those other apparent folk in your imaginary world share this undifferentiated identity, which must be the same as you experience. But knowing that as a concept doesn’t really do the job…, it’s a matter of recognition of equality beyond the level of concepts and language.

 
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