< 1 2
 
   
 

Answer to Philosophical Antinatalists

 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  9367
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
01 September 2020 12:19
 
8262014 - 01 September 2020 12:15 AM

Unsmoked—

Mark Twain said:
.
“Before I was born, I was dead for millions of years, and it didn’t inconvenience me a bit.”
.
Michael Ossipoff
September 1st, 2020

There are more than 350,000 species of beetles, and Twain just forgot about the time he was one of them.  (one story suggests that Buddha remembered all of his lives)

quote:  Golden buprestid.
“This lovely beetle is the “golden buprestid,” Cypriacis aurulenta (formerly Buprestis aurulenta). They are relatively common in the Pacific Northwest. The larvae bore in dead and dying conifers, and sometimes get trapped in milled lumber. In such cases, they may continue boring for decades (record is 51 years) before emerging as adults like this one. Usual life cycle is probably 3-5 years.”  end quote

Thoreau wrote about a neighbor who had a well-used vintage dining table.  One day the lady of the house set a warm pot on the table and the astonished guests heard a gnawing sound coming from under it.  The pot was lifted and as the rasping continued a beautiful beetle emerged .

Thoreau used this as a metaphor for our own slumbering lives . . . how someday the sun may shine at just the right angle, and we’ll emerge and unfurl our wings.

[ Edited: 01 September 2020 12:32 by unsmoked]
Image Attachments
 
133_3387-3.JPG
 
 
 
8262014
 
Avatar
 
 
8262014
Total Posts:  143
Joined  26-08-2020
 
 
 
02 September 2020 18:51
 

Unsmoked—
.
Though Beetles (Coleoptera) win by number of species, the ants win by number of individuals.  ...more than any other non-microscopic multicellular animal, if I remember correctly.
.
I never talk about distant past-lives. Even the most-recent past-life, the previous one, is, not only unknowable, but outright indeterminate too.
.
Because the infinity of hypothetical life-experience stories includes this one of course, a person’s current life is independent and freestanding, and doesn’t need to be explained by reincarnation from a previous life.  i.e. This life’s hypothetical experience-story was already “there” as an abstract logical-system.
.
But, on the other hand, of course there’s a life that leads into this one. Because experience-stories are infinitely-many, there’s a life whose unconscious end matches the very beginning of this life.  ...with a protagonist who, at the end of a life, was the same as you at the very beginning of your life.
.
...but it isn’t needed as an explanation for this life.  That’s why I say that a previous life is indeterminate.,
.
But one thing that can be said is that badly-lived previous lives make a lot of sense, because they’d be consistent with this birth into the barbaric, violent and rampantly-criminal Land-Of-The-Lost.  This societal world that we were born into is a Purgatory.
.
So, though previous lives are indeterminate, there’s still a good case for them, given the nature of this birth in this bad world. That supports an argument that there were previous lives.
.
Michael Ossipoff
September 3rd, 2020
0110 UTC

 

 
Twissel
 
Avatar
 
 
Twissel
Total Posts:  3147
Joined  19-01-2015
 
 
 
04 September 2020 00:08
 

Anti-natalism is pure BS, usually the product of Depression.


Anti-natalists literally claim that they know better than anyone who wants to have children now, as well as anyone who ever had or will ever have children.
The hubris is unimaginable.

 
 
8262014
 
Avatar
 
 
8262014
Total Posts:  143
Joined  26-08-2020
 
 
 
04 September 2020 06:13
 

Twissel—

Agreed, qualifiedly, especially if you’re talking about Philosophcial Antinatalists. Many of them have an arrogance that almost rivals that of certain people I’ve recently been tallking to in the Christianity forum. But I must say tha they don’t have the inexplicable and alien (to me) meanspiritedness shared by all of the New-“Atheists”.
.
But there are a few positive things that can be said, especially for practical Antinatalism (as opposed to Philosophical Antinatalism).
.
It’s what I was saying at the beginning of my OP.
.
Why bring someone into the rampantly-criminal Land-of-The-Lost?  ...and increase the human burden on the environment?
.
One Antinatalist said that parents should have to first pass psychological-evaluation. Given what my parents were like, I agree. 
.
Some Antinatalists say that parents should have to support their offspring for life.  I like that. Whose idea was that conception and birth, after all?
.
I completely agree with the Antinatalistts when they say that Euthanasia should be available to anyone who wants it, and it should be entirely up to the individual.
.
(...after a brief compulsory counseling, if the requesting person doesn’t appear to have any discernable disability, illness, injury, damage, pain, or other intractable suffering.  But ultimately it should be entirely up to the individual.)
.
As for philosophical Antinatalism, it’s wrong, incorrect. But it’s the conclusions that are wrong.  When Philosophcial Antinatalists tell their premise, they make a valid and good point, and say something that needs answering.  I like it that they bring up that conversation.
.
You know that we’ve all had the feelings that the Ph8losophcal Antinatalists speak of as their premise.,
.
Some Philosophical Antinatalists want human extinction, and have a Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.
.
That doesn’t make sense to me, because if there were enough decent peope wanting to do that for the Earth, and who genuinely wanted to do something about suffering, then any need for human extinction wouldn’t exist anyway. Life would be much better, and the environment would be safe.
.
But of course it looks as if the human-extinction advocates are going to get their way, in the Anthropocene Extinction, which is already underway.

Twissel - 04 September 2020 12:08 AM

Anti-natalism is pure BS, usually the product of Depression.


Anti-natalists literally claim that they know better than anyone who wants to have children now, as well as anyone who ever had or will ever have children.
The hubris is unimaginable.

 
 < 1 2