Conan Speaks - he really did grow up in a country where a monster had taken over the government

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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12 January 2021 10:51
 

Conan speaks.  He really did grow up in a country where a monster had taken over the government.  If you watch this, follow it up with the 60 MINUTES interview with Brad Raffensperger.  Hear the threats?  Does anyone here doubt that today hundreds of U.S. officials are in serious danger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck

Follow this with the 60 MINUTES Raffensperger interview.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-election-brad-raffensperger-60-minutes-2021-01-10/

Reflecting on Arnold’s childhood memory - when did it become dangerous for German officials to refuse Hitler’s demands?  When the Fuhrer told them they were committing a crime and were in danger?  Today (and I mean today) how many U.S. officials are in serious danger from Trump’s anger?

 
 
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Cheshire Cat
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12 January 2021 11:42
 

Mike Pence was in serious danger when the Capitol Building was being stormed. The MAGA mob were looking for him specifically because Trump was angry at him for not disrupting the electoral college count:

But the president’s base—stirred on by figures such as pro-Trump attorney Lin Wood, who repeatedly called for Pence to be killed by firing squad—believed that the vice president had committed an unforgivable betrayal.

The sentiment regarding Pence appears to have been widespread. Reuters photojournalist Jim Bourg also reported hearing numerous rioters calling for the vice president’s death while documenting the uprising.

“I heard at least 3 different rioters at the Capitol say that they hoped to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging him from a Capitol Hill tree as a traitor,” Bourg tweeted. “It was a common line being repeated. Many more were just talking about how the VP should be executed.”

https://tinyurl.com/y645gzor

Despite the fact that Trump put his life in danger, Pence will not invoke the 25 Amendment and remove him from office. In fact, according to Bloomberg:

Vice President Mike Pence signaled he’ll spurn demands to immediately oust Donald Trump over a deadly riot by the president’s supporters as the two met and agreed to work together for the remainder of the term, according to a senior administration official.”

The two men, meeting in the Oval Office, agreed that people who broke into the Capitol don’t represent Trump’s “America First” movement and pledged to continue their work on behalf of the country for the remainder of their term, the official said.

https://tinyurl.com/y2rjsbev

Pence’s cognitive dissonance is off the charts. Trump put Pence’s very life in danger and the people who wanted to hang him are actually Trump’s most ardent and loyal supporters, not some outlying fringe. They are the core of his base.

The one good thing about Pence’s astounding misplaced loyalty to Trump is that instead of invoking the 25 Amendment, the Democrats will make sure Trump is impeached for a second time. I think a second impeachment is a more serious charge and an even greater stain on Trump in American history. Plus, it will ensure he cannot run for office in 2024.

 

 
 
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12 January 2021 12:10
 
Cheshire Cat - 12 January 2021 11:42 AM

. . . the Democrats will make sure Trump is impeached for a second time. I think a second impeachment is a more serious charge and an even greater stain on Trump in American history. Plus, it will ensure he cannot run for office in 2024.

The Senate has to convict with 2/3 vote for Trump to be disqualified for office.  Senate Republicans have already said they won’t convict, which means they endorse Trump’s sloppy, violent coup attempt, and have given him the chance to next time have a better organized coup.

 
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12 January 2021 12:40
 
Skipshot - 12 January 2021 12:10 PM
Cheshire Cat - 12 January 2021 11:42 AM

. . . the Democrats will make sure Trump is impeached for a second time. I think a second impeachment is a more serious charge and an even greater stain on Trump in American history. Plus, it will ensure he cannot run for office in 2024.

The Senate has to convict with 2/3 vote for Trump to be disqualified for office.  Senate Republicans have already said they won’t convict, which means they endorse Trump’s sloppy, violent coup attempt, and have given him the chance to next time have a better organized coup.

Whether the Democrats succeed or fail to impeach Trump a second time — it’s the right and just thing to do.

And those Republicans who vote against it will forever be on the wrong side of history.

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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12 January 2021 12:46
 
Skipshot - 12 January 2021 12:10 PM
Cheshire Cat - 12 January 2021 11:42 AM

. . . the Democrats will make sure Trump is impeached for a second time. I think a second impeachment is a more serious charge and an even greater stain on Trump in American history. Plus, it will ensure he cannot run for office in 2024.

The Senate has to convict with 2/3 vote for Trump to be disqualified for office.  Senate Republicans have already said they won’t convict, which means they endorse Trump’s sloppy, violent coup attempt, and have given him the chance to next time have a better organized coup.

Incorrect.  Removal from office is a 2/3 majority.  Disqualification is a simple majority.  If proceedings go past inauguration, then it can skip the removal vote and just do the disqualification vote.  There is precedence for disqualifying people after they’re out of office, AND the constitution is worded in such a way that would take a ridiculous reading to say you cannot be disqualified after leaving office.

 
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12 January 2021 12:58
 
weird buffalo - 12 January 2021 12:46 PM
Skipshot - 12 January 2021 12:10 PM
Cheshire Cat - 12 January 2021 11:42 AM

. . . the Democrats will make sure Trump is impeached for a second time. I think a second impeachment is a more serious charge and an even greater stain on Trump in American history. Plus, it will ensure he cannot run for office in 2024.

The Senate has to convict with 2/3 vote for Trump to be disqualified for office.  Senate Republicans have already said they won’t convict, which means they endorse Trump’s sloppy, violent coup attempt, and have given him the chance to next time have a better organized coup.

Incorrect.  Removal from office is a 2/3 majority.  Disqualification is a simple majority.  If proceedings go past inauguration, then it can skip the removal vote and just do the disqualification vote.  There is precedence for disqualifying people after they’re out of office, AND the constitution is worded in such a way that would take a ridiculous reading to say you cannot be disqualified after leaving office.

I’m not finding disqualification in the constitution.  Where do you find it?

 
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weird buffalo
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12 January 2021 14:36
 

Here you go.

And specifically the simple majority for disqualification HAS been challenged and confirmed in a Senate trial.  The Ritter case provides some more good precedent.  He was found “not guilty” on six specific charges, but found guilty on the summation of charges or a “general misbehavior”.  He tried to appeal it in court, but the court found it had no standing to hear his appeal since the Senate was given specific authority in the constitution over this matter.

[ Edited: 12 January 2021 14:41 by weird buffalo]
 
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12 January 2021 17:55
 
weird buffalo - 12 January 2021 02:36 PM

Here you go.

And specifically the simple majority for disqualification HAS been challenged and confirmed in a Senate trial.  The Ritter case provides some more good precedent.  He was found “not guilty” on six specific charges, but found guilty on the summation of charges or a “general misbehavior”.  He tried to appeal it in court, but the court found it had no standing to hear his appeal since the Senate was given specific authority in the constitution over this matter.

Thanks. 

So, the House impeaches Trump, but the Senate acquits (because. . . what for?  He’s already gone).  The Senate votes to disqualify Trump and the votes fall along party lines (because. . . let the Democrats to the dirty work) and the Republicans don’t have to worry about Trump running again but pass the blame to the Democrats, then publicly declare how mean the Democrats are to appease their voters and secure their reelection.

Democrats are happy because they get to hang a parting insult on Trump.  Win-win!!

 
unsmoked
 
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16 January 2021 11:30
 

Speaking of living in a country where a monster has taken over the government, check out this movie - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKxON_ICAWY  (trailer for ‘Unfit’)

Time to have another look at Sinclair Lewis’s ‘It Can’t Happen Here’  (1935)  https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Happen-Here-Signet-Classics/dp/0451465644

About ‘It Can’t Happen Here’ -  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/books/review/classic-novel-that-predicted-trump-sinclar-lewis-it-cant-happen-here.html

A slightly different sense of urgency seems to be fueling the book’s latest surge in popularity. We have already experienced some of what Lewis describes in the first third of the book: a blustery populist candidate rising, against all odds, to the presidency of the United States. Now the great question is whether or not we are moving into Lewis’s terrifying future.

[ Edited: 16 January 2021 11:39 by unsmoked]