THE CHRISTIAN TIP OF THE TRUMP ICEBERG - What Lies Beneath?

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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26 January 2021 10:18
 

Sam Harris book sub-title -  2004 - Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

Trump chose Paula White to be his White House spiritual advisor.  Like other fundamentalist TV evangelists she is a multi-millionaire con artist who preys on superstitious, gullible people, exhorting them to send her money which they do.  Does she believe the garble that she spouts?  Or, only sees that millions of people respond to it and send her money?  (therefore it must be true).

What lies beneath the Trump iceberg is that up to 70 million Americans believe a magical god has chosen Trump to become the one-man know-it-all authority who rules the U.S..  Trump’s lies and deceits, culminating in his attempt to overthrow the U.S. government 20 days ago suggest that he believes this.  Why else would 70 million people, mostly white Christians, vote for him?  Again, why would Paula White believe her own rants and spells?  Answer, because millions of people send her money when she rants and casts spells.

From the land down under - (no, not hell) (scroll down to watch White preaching)  https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/us-election-2020-god-only-knows-whats-going-on-in-the-us/news-story/d46ff0e23a20a9f571cfdbeb39b19a49  (or google - the Australian - US election 2020: God only knows what’s going on in the US)

“God has already settled his mind,” White said. “We will override any will of man over the mind of God.”

This is an interesting take on democracy. Everyone may cast a ballot, but one great stonking vote can tip things one way or another.

White’s son, Brad Knight, also a preacher, said God had come to him and appointed him his David. Not King David but you know, David. You see, David can’t be King because Trump is king.

[ Edited: 26 January 2021 10:29 by unsmoked]
 
 
weird buffalo
 
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26 January 2021 10:30
 
unsmoked - 26 January 2021 10:18 AM

Sam Harris book sub-title -  2004 - Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

Trump chose Paula White to be his White House spiritual advisor.  Like other fundamentalist TV evangelists she is a multi-millionaire con artist who preys on superstitious, gullible people, exhorting them to send her money which they do.  Does she believe the garble that she spouts?  Or, only sees that millions of people respond to it and send her money?  (therefore it must be true).

What lies beneath the Trump iceberg is that up to 70 million Americans believe a magical god has chosen Trump to become the one-man know-it-all authority who rules the U.S..  Trump’s lies and deceits, culminating in his attempt to overthrow the U.S. government 20 days ago suggest that he believes this.  Why else would 70 million people, mostly white Christians, vote for him?  Again, why would Paula White believe her own rants and spells?  Answer, because millions of people send her money when she rants and casts spells.

From the land down under - (no, not hell)  -  https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/us-election-2020-god-only-knows-whats-going-on-in-the-us/news-story/d46ff0e23a20a9f571cfdbeb39b19a49  (scroll down to watch White preaching)

“God has already settled his mind,” White said. “We will override any will of man over the mind of God.”

This is an interesting take on democracy. Everyone may cast a ballot, but one great stonking vote can tip things one way or another.

White’s son, Brad Knight, also a preacher, said God had come to him and appointed him his David. Not King David but you know, David. You see, David can’t be King because Trump is king.

I’m not pushing back on the overall sentiment, but rather the concept I bolded.

We should stop perpetuating the idea that people who fall for religious ideas are somehow simple-minded or especially vulnerable.  All people are vulnerable.  Even smart ones who are skeptics.

Religion has evolved to be insidious.  It wouldn’t have survived this long if it wasn’t good at getting into people’s heads and keeping them imprisoned within.  Most religions start by teaching people how to think when they’re young, which then makes the religion a lifelong issue to be dealt with.  It isn’t uncommon for people who deeply believed early in life to continue to experience fear and anxiety for decades after deconverting.  The thought patterns get embedded deeply and resist removal.

Bending Truth - How Adults Get Indoctrinated
It isn’t limited to children though.  Even intelligent adults can become indoctrinated, and it always starts with small exchanges that seem extremely innocent.

 
Twissel
 
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26 January 2021 10:32
 

I do believe that many successful TVangelists start to believe their own prosperity-Gospel BS, because if they didn’t they would have to accept that what they do is literally stealing from the poorest and most desperate so that they can have a bigger Jet.
Their basic belief is: “God wants me to do whatever is necessary to be rich and powerful, and I know it’s God telling me this because if he wasn’t, it would be the Devil.”

 
 
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26 January 2021 12:11
 
Twissel - 26 January 2021 10:32 AM

I do believe that many successful TVangelists start to believe their own prosperity-Gospel BS, because if they didn’t they would have to accept that what they do is literally stealing from the poorest and most desperate so that they can have a bigger Jet.
Their basic belief is: “God wants me to do whatever is necessary to be rich and powerful, and I know it’s God telling me this because if he wasn’t, it would be the Devil.”

I’ve highlighted your last sentence which I agree with.  As they think this, I wonder if millionaire prosperity preachers then have an alarming insight:  “Could Jesus be the Devil?  Because Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth, not the powerful, and he also said that it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven.”

Matthew 19:24 -  “I’ll say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!” - Jesus

 
 
weird buffalo
 
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26 January 2021 13:54
 
Twissel - 26 January 2021 10:32 AM

I do believe that many successful TVangelists start to believe their own prosperity-Gospel BS, because if they didn’t they would have to accept that what they do is literally stealing from the poorest and most desperate so that they can have a bigger Jet.
Their basic belief is: “God wants me to do whatever is necessary to be rich and powerful, and I know it’s God telling me this because if he wasn’t, it would be the Devil.”

It’s also an example of how resolving cognitive dissonance can result in deepening a belief.  Their growing wealth in contrast to the stagnant or shrinking wealth of their congregation is proof that God loves the TVangelist AND the congregation.  God wouldn’t reward the TVangelist if it wasn’t what God wanted.  The suffering of the congregation is part of his plan.  It’s proof he loves them too.

 
MARTIN_UK
 
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26 January 2021 14:46
 

If I had to pick just one, I’d pick Ganesh. He just looks mint, Shiva and Parvati must be so proud.

 
Jefe
 
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26 January 2021 15:58
 
Twissel - 26 January 2021 10:32 AM

I do believe that many successful TVangelists start to believe their own prosperity-Gospel BS…

Many of them are insisting on in-person services with maskless congregants.
Their earnings probably go down in low income demographics due to difficulty collecting credit card donations, and why not endanger everyone during a pandemic with crowded maskless super-spreader gatherings?

 
 
icehorse
 
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26 January 2021 17:41
 

weird:

We should stop perpetuating the idea that people who fall for religious ideas are somehow simple-minded or especially vulnerable.  All people are vulnerable.  Even smart ones who are skeptics.

Well it’s a statistical claim, and I would defend the idea that strongly religious people - while not statistically stupid - are probably statistically more ignorant than non-religious folk.

 
 
Poldano
 
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27 January 2021 00:19
 
Jefe - 26 January 2021 03:58 PM
Twissel - 26 January 2021 10:32 AM

I do believe that many successful TVangelists start to believe their own prosperity-Gospel BS…

Many of them are insisting on in-person services with maskless congregants.
Their earnings probably go down in low income demographics due to difficulty collecting credit card donations, and why not endanger everyone during a pandemic with crowded maskless super-spreader gatherings?

As one of my bosses once said to me, “You’re not quite cynical enough.”

Cash donations without a name are very difficult to track, so they are easier to skim for expenses that would not look good on an annual report.

Also, in-person assemblies allow the full charisma of the preacher to be unleashed in group-hypnotic ecstasy, that can translate the looming implicit shame of not giving into glorious generosity.

[wink]

 
 
Jefe
 
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27 January 2021 08:57
 
Poldano - 27 January 2021 12:19 AM
Jefe - 26 January 2021 03:58 PM
Twissel - 26 January 2021 10:32 AM

I do believe that many successful TVangelists start to believe their own prosperity-Gospel BS…

Many of them are insisting on in-person services with maskless congregants.
Their earnings probably go down in low income demographics due to difficulty collecting credit card donations, and why not endanger everyone during a pandemic with crowded maskless super-spreader gatherings?

As one of my bosses once said to me, “You’re not quite cynical enough.”

Cash donations without a name are very difficult to track, so they are easier to skim for expenses that would not look good on an annual report.

Also, in-person assemblies allow the full charisma of the preacher to be unleashed in group-hypnotic ecstasy, that can translate the looming implicit shame of not giving into glorious generosity.

[wink]

Yup.  Imagine the side-eye from your neighbors if your drop into the collection plate was not fat enough…

 
 
unsmoked
 
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27 January 2021 11:26
 

THE CHRISTIAN TIP OF THE TRUMP ICEBERG - What Lies Beneath?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z200D8dAWLM&list=PLs_ZwBZohPWLow8q4buhMWWa1k3FqQ97D&index=138

Does the GOP need the votes of these congregations?

Does the GOP need these votes?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

The Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist, and male-only white nationalist political organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ Edited: 27 January 2021 11:32 by unsmoked]
 
 
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28 January 2021 01:09
 
unsmoked - 27 January 2021 11:26 AM

THE CHRISTIAN TIP OF THE TRUMP ICEBERG - What Lies Beneath?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z200D8dAWLM&list=PLs_ZwBZohPWLow8q4buhMWWa1k3FqQ97D&index=138

Does the GOP need the votes of these congregations?

Does the GOP need these votes?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

The Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist, and male-only white nationalist political organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Republicans can’t afford to ignore anyone wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

 
 
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28 January 2021 19:34
 
Poldano - 28 January 2021 01:09 AM
unsmoked - 27 January 2021 11:26 AM

THE CHRISTIAN TIP OF THE TRUMP ICEBERG - What Lies Beneath?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z200D8dAWLM&list=PLs_ZwBZohPWLow8q4buhMWWa1k3FqQ97D&index=138

Does the GOP need the votes of these congregations?

Does the GOP need these votes?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

The Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist, and male-only white nationalist political organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada.”

 

The Republicans can’t afford to ignore anyone wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

And can’t ignore all the ‘good people’ in several dozen groups like this:

Aryan Nations, is a white supremacist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has called Aryan Nations a “terrorist threat”, and the RAND Corporation has called it the “first truly nationwide terrorist network” in the US.

 

 
 
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07 February 2021 09:50
 
icehorse - 26 January 2021 05:41 PM

weird:

We should stop perpetuating the idea that people who fall for religious ideas are somehow simple-minded or especially vulnerable.  All people are vulnerable.  Even smart ones who are skeptics.

Well it’s a statistical claim, and I would defend the idea that strongly religious people - while not statistically stupid - are probably statistically more ignorant than non-religious folk.

I think the useful thing is to aggressively indict bad ideas without personalizing them. A ‘religious person’ might well be analytical, rational and logical on total balance. Or they might be a complete nincompoop. I try to ignore that spectrum altogether. I’m not well placed to render a personal judgment and even if I was that wouldn’t be constructive. Both of those people would be better off if they eliminated some nonsense from the total of their psychological commitments. As would you or I.

 

 
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08 February 2021 12:14
 

THE CHRISTIAN TIP OF THE TRUMP ICEBERG - What Lies Beneath?

Mr. Ron provides this link to the topic:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhTbtqOJA08  (Bill Maher)