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Jordan Peterson Criticism

 
acvm
 
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acvm
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17 February 2021 22:25
 

Wondering what criticism people have of Jordan Peterson.

Here are mine:
- Unreasonable approach to ‘truth’ - https://forum.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/69232/
- He did not do very well in GQ interview, he was very combative and did not do a good job listening - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZYQpge1W5s
- He used his status to promote his daughter (I don’t have specific links but this is the impression I got in multiple videos). This while criticizing Justin Trudeau on capitalizing on his father’s name.
- He once dodged a question that was critical of his daughter meat diet program (can’t find the video right now).

EDIT:
- When asked why does he seem so angry he dodges the question effectively, I think the honest answer would be “It’s a technique for good public speaking”.
- Gives different answers to why the 1st book is called “an antidote to chaos”, while putting forward the already existing association of chaos as feminine. He also said that 2nd book would be “An antidote to order”, however it’s “Beyond order”.

[ Edited: 18 February 2021 02:54 by acvm]
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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17 February 2021 22:59
 

he is a sad, self-loathing man with deep psychological issues.

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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18 February 2021 01:50
 

I agree with roughly half of what he says. But the stuff he’s acclaimed for is generally the stuff I think is wrong. I think he’s a below average academic with a gift for public speaking and an toxic following ... which I only half blame him for. He’s admitted to certain aspects of his own mental illness. I can empathize with some of his distress. At the same time his public offerings have caused a lot of harm. I think his public persona/following reflects a lot of cultural deficits. Damaged young men who desperately want a father figure but often don’t understand why and latch onto a public figure who has given them some affirmation for a controversial view. I don’t mock them for attending his events but I wish that they had found a better teacher.

I think he has a dangerous magnetism. A lot of what he says is pretty empty to my ears. Vague mythicist deepities. Overly obvious life coach advice. But exuding thoughtful empathy and scholarly dapperness. A person meaner than me once called him ‘Deepak Chopra to the Alt Right’... which goes a bit too far but certainly isn’t all wrong.

I’d probably give him a pass as someone with mostly trivial disagreements if not for his cultish following. That bit always scares me. I’m scared of the part of myself that might be sucked into something like that.

 
acvm
 
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acvm
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18 February 2021 02:51
 
Brick Bungalow - 18 February 2021 01:50 AM

But the stuff he’s acclaimed for is generally the stuff I think is wrong.

Could you briefly summarize ? People might disagree on what he’s famous for. He would probably say that he’s famous for talking about the link between responsibility and meaning. I suspect that you might be talking about him saying that the radical left is one of the biggest dangers to current society ?

Brick Bungalow - 18 February 2021 01:50 AM

I think he’s a below average academic with a gift for public speaking and an toxic following

Oh yup he has a gift for public speaking for sure. I guess that’s another possible criticism, when asked why does he seem so angry he dodges the question effectively, I think the honest answer would be “It’s a technique for good public speaking”.

Brick Bungalow - 18 February 2021 01:50 AM

He’s admitted to certain aspects of his own mental illness.

What are you referring to ? He’s admitted to depression, anxiety and akathisia. I assume you’re saying he has schizophrenia ?

[ Edited: 18 February 2021 03:06 by acvm]
 
Jefe
 
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18 February 2021 07:57
 

I think he is extremely over-rated.  His book is unoriginal, really just a re-hashing of psych platitudes, but seems to resonate with people who follow him. His personal flaws and errors of science make the rest sort of laughable.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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18 February 2021 08:47
 

Peterson was indeed over-rated – a blowhard with a nasty side who’d use academic language to disguise his prejudices and motives.  His rhetoric particularly attracting confused and angry young men.

It appears that he’s slowly fading into obscurity where he belongs – let’s leave him there.

 
 
acvm
 
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acvm
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18 February 2021 17:36
 
Jan_CAN - 18 February 2021 08:47 AM

a blowhard with a nasty side who’d use academic language to disguise his prejudices and motives.

What do you think his motives are ?

 
Jefe
 
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18 February 2021 17:48
 
acvm - 18 February 2021 05:36 PM
Jan_CAN - 18 February 2021 08:47 AM

a blowhard with a nasty side who’d use academic language to disguise his prejudices and motives.

What do you think his motives are ?


$$$

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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18 February 2021 17:54
 
acvm - 18 February 2021 02:51 AM
Brick Bungalow - 18 February 2021 01:50 AM

But the stuff he’s acclaimed for is generally the stuff I think is wrong.

Could you briefly summarize ? People might disagree on what he’s famous for. He would probably say that he’s famous for talking about the link between responsibility and meaning. I suspect that you might be talking about him saying that the radical left is one of the biggest dangers to current society ?

Brick Bungalow - 18 February 2021 01:50 AM

I think he’s a below average academic with a gift for public speaking and an toxic following

Oh yup he has a gift for public speaking for sure. I guess that’s another possible criticism, when asked why does he seem so angry he dodges the question effectively, I think the honest answer would be “It’s a technique for good public speaking”.

Brick Bungalow - 18 February 2021 01:50 AM

He’s admitted to certain aspects of his own mental illness.

What are you referring to ? He’s admitted to depression, anxiety and akathisia. I assume you’re saying he has schizophrenia ?

He is fond of mythicism and couches his views on ethics in terms of archetypes. He’s pretty careful not to say anything manifestly superstitious but I personally find this tactic pretty empty of content and worse it validates the part of his following that do hold superstitious and magical views. He regularly chastises other scholars for being too critical of religious views even in circumstances where religious conviction is causing direct harm or infringing upon civil rights. Recently he seems to have acknowledged actual religious experiences but still hasn’t made an explicit commitment to doctrine. Mostly, he consistently changes the subject when asked directly about his theological commitments. Even in conversations where he brought up the topic initially. I don’t trust people that do that. I accept whatever answer you give me but refusing to answer a straight question that is germane to the conversation isn’t helpful.

As I said, I don’t really blame him personally or dislike him necessarily. But I do think he’s dangerous type of figure. I think he has the kind of charisma and the kind of vague deepity style presentation that validates and consolidates some pretty toxic groups. People who think they have been given a great gift. People who become convinced that they have a moral imperative while being simultaneously misinformed about the particulars of the issue in question… this is a bad combination. I believe the valuable public educators are light on charisma and affirmation in favor of a focus on fact and method.

The condition which Petersen has made public is clinical depression rooted to an autoimmune disorder. I actually appreciate him for this because he used the event to disseminate some useful information about diet and lifestyle.

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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24 February 2021 12:21
 

To start with, he doesn’t follow his own advice.

Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world

This is a line of reasoning that he uses to explain that leftists should never engage in political action.  Or anyone for that matter.  Yet he himself gets up on stages, does tv interviews, writes books, etc.  If his genuinely believed that advice, he would give up his public life and focus on himself and his family.  He doesn’t though.  His own advice tells us that he, Peterson, should shut up.

It doesn’t help that every other chapter in his book is similarly riddled with inconsistencies, scientific errors, and extremely bad logic.  He’s a demagogue dressed up in academic clothing.

 
Greg Rogers
 
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Greg Rogers
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26 February 2021 17:14
 

I think he is a decent guy. Who has done much good in advocating for liberalism, personality, etc.

His Jungian ideas are weird.  He often pontificates about things he is not able to address.  He has certain academic fetishes (e.g. the Bible) which are strange.  He has visions of his father that he attributes meaning (see debate with Sam Harris).  He only ate meat for awhile and flew to Russia to be put into a coma.  In spite of his obvious wealth, he continues to charge for some pretty common knowledge (unlike Sam, who provides it for free if you don’t have money).

Not the most over-rated popular academic… but in competition.

 
weird buffalo
 
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26 February 2021 22:21
 
Greg Rogers - 26 February 2021 05:14 PM

I think he is a decent guy. Who has done much good in advocating for liberalism, personality, etc.

His Jungian ideas are weird.  He often pontificates about things he is not able to address.  He has certain academic fetishes (e.g. the Bible) which are strange.  He has visions of his father that he attributes meaning (see debate with Sam Harris).  He only ate meat for awhile and flew to Russia to be put into a coma.  In spite of his obvious wealth, he continues to charge for some pretty common knowledge (unlike Sam, who provides it for free if you don’t have money).

Not the most over-rated popular academic… but in competition.

I don’t think he’s decent at all.  He monetized being rude to people.  He decided to be intentionally be inconsiderate to others in order to make lots of money.

 
Greg Rogers
 
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Greg Rogers
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04 March 2021 18:48
 
weird buffalo - 26 February 2021 10:21 PM
Greg Rogers - 26 February 2021 05:14 PM

I think he is a decent guy. Who has done much good in advocating for liberalism, personality, etc.

His Jungian ideas are weird.  He often pontificates about things he is not able to address.  He has certain academic fetishes (e.g. the Bible) which are strange.  He has visions of his father that he attributes meaning (see debate with Sam Harris).  He only ate meat for awhile and flew to Russia to be put into a coma.  In spite of his obvious wealth, he continues to charge for some pretty common knowledge (unlike Sam, who provides it for free if you don’t have money).

Not the most over-rated popular academic… but in competition.

I don’t think he’s decent at all.  He monetized being rude to people.  He decided to be intentionally be inconsiderate to others in order to make lots of money.

I think you need to find an interview he did… can’t remember where, it was Canadian… I think it would change your mind. 

 

 
weird buffalo
 
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04 March 2021 22:36
 

Is it one where he’s apologized for the fake controversy he’s generated over bill C-16?  Where he declares he will in the future properly gender trans people?  Because his complaints about “compelled speech” are bullshit, and he’s decided that he wants to be rude purely for the sake of being rude… unless you count making money (ie, being rude to trans people in order to increase his income).

He’s an asshole who thinks he gets to decide who is worthwhile and who isn’t.

I wouldn’t normally cite someone’s drug addiction as a mark against them.  Getting addicted to drugs of any kind can happen to anyone, and we should have empathy and compassion for them.  Except of course for someone like Jordan Peterson.  Someone who has advocated for NOT having compassion for people addicted to drugs.  In his own arrogance he’s probably caused himself brain damage by not listening to his doctors when dealing with his own drug addiction.  I’d have empathy for him… if he changed his tune, but he hasn’t.  Instead he’s doubled down and is currently attempting to monetize his political views (something he spends a whole chapter railing against in 12 Rules) in a money grab.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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05 March 2021 05:43
 
weird buffalo - 04 March 2021 10:36 PM

Is it one where he’s apologized for the fake controversy he’s generated over bill C-16?  Where he declares he will in the future properly gender trans people?  Because his complaints about “compelled speech” are bullshit, and he’s decided that he wants to be rude purely for the sake of being rude… unless you count making money (ie, being rude to trans people in order to increase his income).

He’s an asshole who thinks he gets to decide who is worthwhile and who isn’t.

I wouldn’t normally cite someone’s drug addiction as a mark against them.  Getting addicted to drugs of any kind can happen to anyone, and we should have empathy and compassion for them.  Except of course for someone like Jordan Peterson.  Someone who has advocated for NOT having compassion for people addicted to drugs.  In his own arrogance he’s probably caused himself brain damage by not listening to his doctors when dealing with his own drug addiction.  I’d have empathy for him… if he changed his tune, but he hasn’t.  Instead he’s doubled down and is currently attempting to monetize his political views (something he spends a whole chapter railing against in 12 Rules) in a money grab.

This is it exactly.  Instead of using his platform to openly discuss the mental health problems that led to his drug addiction, which would’ve been admirable, he lied as though these are moral failings and not illnesses.  Apparently the daughter is the one with the autoimmune disease and has followed in his footsteps by creating a platform of her own.  Cockamamie counselling for cash money and pushing an all meat diet as the cure.  Forcing doctors to trail behind advising folks against it.

They are like a travelling medicine show.  Which is good timing…since more and more people seem to love the taste of snake oil.

 
 
Jefe
 
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05 March 2021 08:03
 
LadyJane - 05 March 2021 05:43 AM

Forcing doctors to trail behind advising folks against it.

They are like a travelling medicine show.  Which is good timing…since more and more people seem to love the taste of snake oil.

POMO snake oil for those who don’t think they like POMO - even if they don’t understand their own position.

 
 
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