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Elite Academic Left-wing Conspiracy

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 March 2021 08:26
 
deodand - 20 March 2021 06:26 AM

Read it again.  He had just finished quoting Lemon, then resumed writing in his own voice.  What I quoted is from his description of Black Lives Matter, which goes on for the rest of the paragraph.

Whether Shapiro thinks police brutality is an issue is immaterial to whether he thinks Black Lives Matter began with protests over police brutality.  One goes to the question of what “caused” BLM, the other to whether he agrees with them.  Obviously he can identify their cause without agreeing with it.

Here’s the full paragraph:

Mr. Lemon specifically objected to Mr. Crews’ hashtag. After Mr. Lemon humbly informed Mr. Crews that he has skin “as tough as an armadillo,” he then lectured: “The Black Lives Matter movement was started because it was talking about police brutality. ... But that’s not what Black Lives Matter is about. It’s not ... all-encompassing ... The Black Lives Matter movement is about police brutality and injustice in that matter, not about what’s happening in Black neighborhoods.

Everything in bold is a quote from Lemon.  You can tell because everything there is encased in quotation marks.

So, now either you don’t know how quotes work… or you’re trying to gaslight me.  Neither one is a good look for you.

Youtube clip of the interview, starting at 6:17.
Shapiro doesn’t quote everything… but if he’s not quoting from there, then he’s a plagarist.  I would give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt that he is quoting (though kind of messy) and not a plagarist.

[ Edited: 20 March 2021 08:32 by weird buffalo]
 
deodand
 
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deodand
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20 March 2021 08:43
 

Here are the second and third paragraphs from the article.  The material I quoted from Shapiro, who’d first quoted Lemon, then discussed him, is in bold.

Mr. Lemon specifically objected to Mr. Crews’ hashtag. After Mr. Lemon humbly informed Mr. Crews that he has skin “as tough as an armadillo,” he then lectured: “The Black Lives Matter movement was started because it was talking about police brutality. ... But that’s not what Black Lives Matter is about. It’s not ... all-encompassing ... The Black Lives Matter movement is about police brutality and injustice in that matter, not about what’s happening in Black neighborhoods.”

This, of course, is largely false. The Black Lives Matter movement did indeed begin with protests about police brutality but quickly morphed into broader debates over the validity of looting and rioting, tearing down historic statues, slavery reparations and defunding the police. And Black Lives Matter, as Mr. Crews correctly pointed out, has never restricted its mandate to the question of police violence: It has announced that its focuses also include police brutality, transgender rights, gay rights, disrupting the nuclear family and freeing Palestine, among other diverse topics.

Obviously you’re the one, once again, coming out bad here.

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 March 2021 12:17
 

Okay, I’ll admit, I missed that bit… but I am right that he doesn’t actually discuss the issue.  So he paraphrased Lemon… and then moved on not talk about that sentence.

It’s about as convincing as a mob boss saying “I never told anyone to kill the man.”

A video 5 days before that article where Shapiro explains that police brutality isn’t a problem in his view.  You can watch the video for his own argument, but he presents arguments to completely sidestep the issue.

[ Edited: 20 March 2021 12:24 by weird buffalo]
 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 March 2021 12:50
 

And of course, all of this is irrelevant to my point in the OP.

My claim in the OP was about Shapiro’s framing of academics.  If you’re unfamiliar, he in fact wrote a whole book about how universities were brainwashing students.  Which goes to my point about his views being relevant to what I wrote in the OP.

 
burt
 
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burt
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20 March 2021 14:12
 

To what extent does the “elite left-wing academic conspiracy” have the same ontological status as “systemic racism?”

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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20 March 2021 14:32
 

I think we’re okay just examining one of them in this thread.  Though some might claim that “systemic racism” is a product of the left-wing academic conspiracy.  But I won’t assign that belief to anyone in specific.

[ Edited: 20 March 2021 14:35 by weird buffalo]
 
deodand
 
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deodand
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20 March 2021 14:37
 

Both are placeholders in an ideology, not a description of reality.

 
deodand
 
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deodand
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20 March 2021 14:44
 

Shapiro is right that police brutality is not a systemic problem, but he has never said, or even hinted, that when it happens, that’s not a problem.

In any case, you said Shapiro believes that Black Lives Matter is “a plot by evil left-wing academics who are propping up black people,” not black people fighting for their rights over an actual cause.  I gave you a quote showing he thinks BLM began as protestors protesting an actual cause, police brutality, not academics instigating them into action on their behalf, over something they themselves created.  That he also thinks academics are brainwashing students is neither here nor there; he would reject, as I did, your statement “Academic leftists caused Black Lives Matter,” which you used a clarification of the OP.  The most he would say is that brainwashing students with Woke ideology gives the movement much its power, and that the ideology itself provides the framing for its agenda, both of which are true, once one steps back from the overcharged word “brainwashing.”

There are probably lunatics who think what you describe, but Ben Shapiro is not one of them.

 
burt
 
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burt
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20 March 2021 20:56
 
deodand - 20 March 2021 02:37 PM

Both are placeholders in an ideology, not a description of reality.

That’s a bit unclear since one of them is from the far right and other from the far left. So perhaps two ideologies?

 
deodand
 
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deodand
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21 March 2021 06:29
 
burt - 20 March 2021 08:56 PM
deodand - 20 March 2021 02:37 PM

Both are placeholders in an ideology, not a description of reality.

That’s a bit unclear since one of them is from the far right and other from the far left. So perhaps two ideologies?

My bad.  Most definitely.  “An” refers to their respective ideologies.

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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21 March 2021 07:18
 
deodand - 20 March 2021 02:44 PM

Shapiro is right that police brutality is not a systemic problem, but he has never said, or even hinted, that when it happens, that’s not a problem.

In any case, you said Shapiro believes that Black Lives Matter is “a plot by evil left-wing academics who are propping up black people,” not black people fighting for their rights over an actual cause.  I gave you a quote showing he thinks BLM began as protestors protesting an actual cause, police brutality, not academics instigating them into action on their behalf, over something they themselves created.  That he also thinks academics are brainwashing students is neither here nor there; he would reject, as I did, your statement “Academic leftists caused Black Lives Matter,” which you used a clarification of the OP.  The most he would say is that brainwashing students with Woke ideology gives the movement much its power, and that the ideology itself provides the framing for its agenda, both of which are true, once one steps back from the overcharged word “brainwashing.”

There are probably lunatics who think what you describe, but Ben Shapiro is not one of them.

Except of course… Shapiro introduced “brainwashing” into the conversation over 15 years before I started this thread.  So it’s not my fault he’s presented his case this way.  And I find Vonnegut’s quote on the topic fairly informative: Be careful who you pretend to be.
The past few months have clearly demonstrated that pretending to hold such beliefs, or framing them in such a way, can influence thousands or even millions of people to think that it is true.

[ Edited: 21 March 2021 07:21 by weird buffalo]
 
deodand
 
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deodand
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21 March 2021 09:19
 

Ben Shapiro doesn’t pretend to believe anything.  He never hides the ball.  If he believed an elite of left wing academics was pulling the strings of BLM, or otherwise caused the movement, he would be howling it from the roof tops.  This may be his one redeeming quality, in my opinion: a direct, straightforward, what you see is what you get.  In any case, you haven’t produced a shred of evidence that he’s said any such thing, which means you’ve created one of the straw men you keep accusing others of.  This is the only relevant factor to the point you have tried to make in this thread, Vonnegut and being careful what you wish for notwithstanding.

Like you say, source please.  As I say, put up or shut up.  Until you provide one, it’s been established that you are wrong about Ben Shapiro, probably because of the same blinding bias that caused you to miss that quote, twice, even after being directed to it in my description of where to find it.

I’m fairly certain a little scrutiny would show the same straw manning of Dave Rubin, but since I don’t follow him, I might be wrong about that.

Enjoy the last word, but try not to squander it with more evasions.  The straw man or misinterpretation is all on you.

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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21 March 2021 10:04
 

You’ve threatened to leave the thread before.  I’m wondering when you’ll follow through.

[ Edited: 21 March 2021 10:09 by weird buffalo]
 
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