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Chauvin guilty on all murder/manslaughter charges for Floyd killing

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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20 April 2021 15:49
 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/ex-cop-derek-chauvin-guilty-of-murder-and-manslaughter-in-death-of-george-floyd-1.5394195

Chauvin was found guilty on all charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

That sends a message.

[ Edited: 20 April 2021 15:51 by Jefe]
 
 
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20 April 2021 18:02
 

Good.

 
MrRon
 
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MrRon
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21 April 2021 06:31
 

“You were told, for example, that Mr. Floyd died because his heart was too big. You heard that testimony, Now having seen all the evidence, having heard all the evidence, you know the truth. And the truth of the matter is – that the reason George Floyd is dead is because Mr. Chauvin’s heart was too small,” -
Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell

 
acvm
 
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acvm
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28 April 2021 12:41
 
Jefe - 20 April 2021 03:49 PM

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/ex-cop-derek-chauvin-guilty-of-murder-and-manslaughter-in-death-of-george-floyd-1.5394195

Chauvin was found guilty on all charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

That sends a message.

Sends multiple messages depending on who you are:
- If you’re an overly emotional dumb person you got the message that justice was done in this case.
- If you actually understand the legal process and the concept of reasonable doubt you get the message that popular, controversial cases are decided via mob justice.

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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28 April 2021 12:46
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 12:41 PM
Jefe - 20 April 2021 03:49 PM

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/ex-cop-derek-chauvin-guilty-of-murder-and-manslaughter-in-death-of-george-floyd-1.5394195

Chauvin was found guilty on all charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

That sends a message.

Sends multiple messages depending on who you are:
- If you’re an overly emotional dumb person you got the message that justice was done in this case.
- If you actually understand the legal process and the concept of reasonable doubt you get the message that popular, controversial cases are decided via mob justice.

Which category best describes me, in your mind?

 
 
acvm
 
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acvm
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28 April 2021 12:49
 
Jefe - 28 April 2021 12:46 PM
acvm - 28 April 2021 12:41 PM
Jefe - 20 April 2021 03:49 PM

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/ex-cop-derek-chauvin-guilty-of-murder-and-manslaughter-in-death-of-george-floyd-1.5394195

Chauvin was found guilty on all charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

That sends a message.

Sends multiple messages depending on who you are:
- If you’re an overly emotional dumb person you got the message that justice was done in this case.
- If you actually understand the legal process and the concept of reasonable doubt you get the message that popular, controversial cases are decided via mob justice.

Which category best describes me, in your mind?

I don’t categorize smile.
I’ve disabled viewing poster names so it’s not possible to tell who made what post when reading it.
Precisely because this would bias me.
I can still tell when quoting someone though.

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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28 April 2021 12:51
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 12:49 PM
Jefe - 28 April 2021 12:46 PM
acvm - 28 April 2021 12:41 PM
Jefe - 20 April 2021 03:49 PM

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/ex-cop-derek-chauvin-guilty-of-murder-and-manslaughter-in-death-of-george-floyd-1.5394195

Chauvin was found guilty on all charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

That sends a message.

Sends multiple messages depending on who you are:
- If you’re an overly emotional dumb person you got the message that justice was done in this case.
- If you actually understand the legal process and the concept of reasonable doubt you get the message that popular, controversial cases are decided via mob justice.

Which category best describes me, in your mind?

I don’t categorize smile.
I’ve disabled viewing poster names so it’s not possible to tell who made what post when reading it.
Precisely because this would bias me.
I can still tell when quoting someone though.

I’m not sure how you do that.  I don’t see those controls for the forum in my control panel.
Regardless, the original post was made by me.  So I repeat the question:  Which category do you think I fit into, knowing I made that post?

 
 
acvm
 
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acvm
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28 April 2021 12:57
 
Jefe - 28 April 2021 12:51 PM

I’m not sure how you do that.  I don’t see those controls for the forum in my control panel.
Regardless, the original post was made by me.  So I repeat the question:  Which category do you think I fit into, knowing I made that post?


It is not in control panel.
I use:
- This chrome plugin: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/user-javascript-and-css/nbhcbdghjpllgmfilhnhkllmkecfmpld?hl=en
- With this CSS code: https://pastebin.com/JLQfXvLC
- And get this: https://i.imgur.com/XyEwJy1.png

The 2 categories I listed are just the most statistically significant. There are infinite others smile.
If I had to guess you know that the verdict for 2nd and 3rd degree murder were not “justice” as the law defines “justice”, but it was “justice” as you define it.

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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28 April 2021 13:02
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 12:57 PM
Jefe - 28 April 2021 12:51 PM

I’m not sure how you do that.  I don’t see those controls for the forum in my control panel.
Regardless, the original post was made by me.  So I repeat the question:  Which category do you think I fit into, knowing I made that post?


It is not in control panel.
I use:
- This chrome plugin: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/user-javascript-and-css/nbhcbdghjpllgmfilhnhkllmkecfmpld?hl=en
- With this CSS code: https://pastebin.com/JLQfXvLC
- And get this: https://i.imgur.com/XyEwJy1.png

The 2 categories I listed are just the most statistically significant. There are infinite others smile.
If I had to guess you know that the verdict for 2nd and 3rd degree murder were not “justice” as the law defines “justice”, but it was “justice” as you define it.

You’d probably do better to ask me what my actual position is, rather than presuming or projecting onto me.
That’s why I asked you to tell me what you thought my position was.

My actual position is that the sentencing itself is not justice.  It’s a beginning of change that may lead to ongoing justice - if police officers are held accountable for misuse of authority or force - despite in-unit solidarity and covering-for-each-other.  It’s tough to see justice for an unnecessary death after that death occurs.  Grief and loss continue, regardless of the verdict.

 
 
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28 April 2021 13:07
 
Jefe - 28 April 2021 01:02 PM

My actual position is that the sentencing itself is not justice.  It’s a beginning of change that may lead to ongoing justice - if police officers are held accountable for misuse of authority or force - despite in-unit solidarity and covering-for-each-other.  It’s tough to see justice for an unnecessary death after that death occurs.  Grief and loss continue, regardless of the verdict.

Ah, sorry if you think i thought I knew what you think - that was not my point. I was only talking about general populations statistics.

Questions for you (and anyone else if they would please answer):
#1 If you followed the trial, do you think that the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt 2nd degree and 3rd degree murder ?
#2 If Floyd was white and there would have been 0 protests and the jury, the arguments and everything else was the same, do you think the verdict for 2nd and 3rd would have been guilty ?
#3 Do you think Floyd would have died if the knee was 6in away on his head rather than his neck (‘expert’ witnesses contradicted themselves on this so it’s not like we can defer to them) ?

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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28 April 2021 13:14
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:07 PM

Questions for you (and anyone else if they would please answer):
#1 If you followed the trial, do you think that the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt 2nd degree and 3rd degree murder ?

I only followed bits and pieces of the trial, but my opinion is irrelevant.  The jury found him guilty on those counts.
My opinion may differ, but because I wasn’t privy to the whole trial, my information is incomplete.  My understanding of the definitions of second and third degree murder suggests that those charges are apt for the results of the confrontation.

acvm - 28 April 2021 01:07 PM

#2 If Floyd was white and there would have been 0 protests and the jury, the arguments and everything else was the same, do you think the verdict for 2nd and 3rd would have been guilty ?

No Idea.  If a white person had their neck knelt on for 9 1/2 mins and unnecessarily died from asphyxia, I hope there would be legal consequences for the officer in that case too - and that those consequences would be just as serious as a lethal use of force merits.

acvm - 28 April 2021 01:07 PM

#3 Do you think Floyd would have died if the knee was 6in away on his head rather than his neck ?

 

Since the cause of death was determined by medical experts to be asphyxia, I think that not kneeling on his neck might possibly have made a difference in the outcome, but this would be pure speculation after the fact, and not relevant to the actual case.

 
 
MrRon
 
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28 April 2021 13:22
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 12:41 PM

Sends multiple messages depending on who you are:
- If you’re an overly emotional dumb person you got the message that justice was done in this case.
- If you actually understand the legal process and the concept of reasonable doubt you get the message that popular, controversial cases are decided via mob justice.

How was there “mob justice”? There were jurors (agreed to by Chauvin’s attorney), a judge, witnesses, experts, actual videos of the encounter between Floyd and Chauvin, and a fair trial that spanned a couple weeks. Both sides had full participation in the trial and presented their best cases. Seems to me it was the exact opposite of mob justice. You not liking the outcome doesn’t make it mob justice.

Ron

 
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28 April 2021 13:30
 
MrRon - 28 April 2021 01:22 PM

How was there “mob justice”? There were jurors (agreed to by Chauvin’s attorney), a judge, witnesses, experts, actual videos of the encounter between Floyd and Chauvin, and a fair trial that spanned a couple weeks. Both sides had full participation in the trial and presented their best cases. Seems to me it was the exact opposite of mob justice. You not liking the outcome doesn’t make it mob justice.

Ron

I’m not saying I like or not the outcome.
Yup, the question is if this was indeed a fair trial.
The problem is that I think that the jurors knew that if they vote not guilty they would cause tens ... hundreds of millions of dollars in damages and death of who knows how many people (via the ensuing riots). And that the jurors that said ‘Not guilty’ would be some of the most hated people in America. And if (quite possibly) their info got leaked their lives would be destroyed and they would have to live in fear for a long time.
So it wasn’t really possible to have a fair trial in this scenario.
The closest you would get is moving the trial to Hawaii or Alaska or a small town in the middle of nowhere.

 
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28 April 2021 13:32
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 12:41 PM
Jefe - 20 April 2021 03:49 PM

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/ex-cop-derek-chauvin-guilty-of-murder-and-manslaughter-in-death-of-george-floyd-1.5394195

Chauvin was found guilty on all charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

That sends a message.

Sends multiple messages depending on who you are:
- If you’re an overly emotional dumb person you got the message that justice was done in this case.
- If you actually understand the legal process and the concept of reasonable doubt you get the message that popular, controversial cases are decided via mob justice.

What is your evidence that the jury was influenced by something other than the facts of the case?

 
weird buffalo
 
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weird buffalo
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28 April 2021 13:33
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:30 PM
MrRon - 28 April 2021 01:22 PM

How was there “mob justice”? There were jurors (agreed to by Chauvin’s attorney), a judge, witnesses, experts, actual videos of the encounter between Floyd and Chauvin, and a fair trial that spanned a couple weeks. Both sides had full participation in the trial and presented their best cases. Seems to me it was the exact opposite of mob justice. You not liking the outcome doesn’t make it mob justice.

Ron

I’m not saying I like or not the outcome.
Yup, the question is if this was indeed a fair trial.
The problem is that I think that the jurors knew that if they vote not guilty they would cause tens ... hundreds of millions of dollars in damages and death of who knows how many people (via the ensuing riots). And that the jurors that said ‘Not guilty’ would be some of the most hated people in America. And if (quite possibly) their info got leaked their lives would be destroyed and they would have to live in fear for a long time.
So it wasn’t really possible to have a fair trial in this scenario.
The closest you would get is moving the trial to Hawaii or Alaska or a small town in the middle of nowhere.

Do you have evidence that this is true?  Or is it like… just your opinion, man.

 
acvm
 
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28 April 2021 13:35
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:07 PM

No Idea.  If a white person had their neck knelt on for 9 1/2 mins and unnecessarily died from asphyxia, I hope there would be legal consequences for the officer in that case too - and that those consequences would be just as serious as a lethal use of force merits.

I have to say that I’m a bit biased since I tried the knee-on-neck on myself and I don’t think that you’ll have lots of success asphyxiating someone with just knee to neck from that position.
Someone also tried it on Youtube and got same results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHLXbVDnkc

This was the stupidest part of the entire trial. Choking (until someone starts blacking out) is not that dangerous.
I’m wondering why the defense or prosecution didn’t try to reproduce the knee-on-neck, like the Youtube guy did.
I would have gladly volunteer, like I said I tried it - it hurts but now way it’s a choking hazard from my experience.

 
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