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Chauvin guilty on all murder/manslaughter charges for Floyd killing

 
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28 April 2021 13:36
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:30 PM
MrRon - 28 April 2021 01:22 PM

How was there “mob justice”? There were jurors (agreed to by Chauvin’s attorney), a judge, witnesses, experts, actual videos of the encounter between Floyd and Chauvin, and a fair trial that spanned a couple weeks. Both sides had full participation in the trial and presented their best cases. Seems to me it was the exact opposite of mob justice. You not liking the outcome doesn’t make it mob justice.

Ron

I’m not saying I like or not the outcome.
Yup, the question is if this was indeed a fair trial.
The problem is that I think that the jurors knew that if they vote not guilty they would cause tens ... hundreds of millions of dollars in damages and death of who knows how many people (via the ensuing riots). And that the jurors that said ‘Not guilty’ would be some of the most hated people in America. And if (quite possibly) their info got leaked their lives would be destroyed and they would have to live in fear for a long time.
So it wasn’t really possible to have a fair trial in this scenario.
The closest you would get is moving the trial to Hawaii or Alaska or a small town in the middle of nowhere.

You sure like to speculate and project.  Beware of confusing that for evidence or using it as cover for ignorance or bias, since it is to your discredit.

 
acvm
 
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28 April 2021 13:43
 
weird buffalo - 28 April 2021 01:33 PM

Do you have evidence that this is true?  Or is it like… just your opinion, man.

Are you saying that this is not true ? That the jury was truly impartial ?
Multiple personalities after the verdict came out and said something like “we got this verdict because we were were so vocal”.
The courthouse was basically a military base during the verdict and there were people outside “protesting” - this after 1 year of riots when the ‘mob’ saw something that they didn’t like. I think that is proof enough that the jury was pressured.

What type of evidence would you expect ? The actual jurors coming out and saying that they ruled like that because they were afraid of the mob ?

 
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28 April 2021 14:02
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:43 PM
weird buffalo - 28 April 2021 01:33 PM

Do you have evidence that this is true?  Or is it like… just your opinion, man.

Are you saying that this is not true ? That the jury was truly impartial ?
Multiple personalities after the verdict came out and said something like “we got this verdict because we were were so vocal”.
The courthouse was basically a military base during the verdict and there were people outside “protesting” - this after 1 year of riots when the ‘mob’ saw something that they didn’t like. I think that is proof enough that the jury was pressured.

What type of evidence would you expect ? The actual jurors coming out and saying that they ruled like that because they were afraid of the mob ?

I would say the judge and judiciary system presiding over the trial likely considered those factors too.  And they would be the best ones to determine if there were impartiality problems with the trial.

 
 
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28 April 2021 14:30
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:43 PM
weird buffalo - 28 April 2021 01:33 PM

Do you have evidence that this is true?  Or is it like… just your opinion, man.

Are you saying that this is not true ? That the jury was truly impartial ?
Multiple personalities after the verdict came out and said something like “we got this verdict because we were were so vocal”.
The courthouse was basically a military base during the verdict and there were people outside “protesting” - this after 1 year of riots when the ‘mob’ saw something that they didn’t like. I think that is proof enough that the jury was pressured.

What type of evidence would you expect ? The actual jurors coming out and saying that they ruled like that because they were afraid of the mob ?

So no, you don’t actually have evidence.  Just your opinions.

If you don’t have evidence, then it would seem more likely that’s it’s just something you want to be true.  I don’t care what you want to be true, I only care about what is actually true.

[ Edited: 28 April 2021 14:35 by weird buffalo]
 
MrRon
 
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28 April 2021 14:43
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:30 PM
MrRon - 28 April 2021 01:22 PM

How was there “mob justice”? There were jurors (agreed to by Chauvin’s attorney), a judge, witnesses, experts, actual videos of the encounter between Floyd and Chauvin, and a fair trial that spanned a couple weeks. Both sides had full participation in the trial and presented their best cases. Seems to me it was the exact opposite of mob justice. You not liking the outcome doesn’t make it mob justice.

Ron

Yup, the question is if this was indeed a fair trial.

No, it’s not the question - it’s your question.

The problem is that I think that the jurors knew that if they vote not guilty they would cause tens ... hundreds of millions of dollars in damages and death of who knows how many people (via the ensuing riots). And that the jurors that said ‘Not guilty’ would be some of the most hated people in America. And if (quite possibly) their info got leaked their lives would be destroyed and they would have to live in fear for a long time.
So it wasn’t really possible to have a fair trial in this scenario.

Then why do you think Eric Nelson agreed to those jurors? 

The closest you would get is moving the trial to Hawaii or Alaska or a small town in the middle of nowhere.

What if the trial did take place in Hawaii or Alaska and still returned a guilty verdict. Would you be satisfied that justice was done?

 

 
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28 April 2021 14:47
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:35 PM
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:07 PM

No Idea.  If a white person had their neck knelt on for 9 1/2 mins and unnecessarily died from asphyxia, I hope there would be legal consequences for the officer in that case too - and that those consequences would be just as serious as a lethal use of force merits.

I have to say that I’m a bit biased since I tried the knee-on-neck on myself and I don’t think that you’ll have lots of success asphyxiating someone with just knee to neck from that position.
Someone also tried it on Youtube and got same results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHLXbVDnkc

This was the stupidest part of the entire trial. Choking (until someone starts blacking out) is not that dangerous.
I’m wondering why the defense or prosecution didn’t try to reproduce the knee-on-neck, like the Youtube guy did.
I would have gladly volunteer, like I said I tried it - it hurts but now way it’s a choking hazard from my experience.

The fact is that George Floyd died after 9 minutes of Chauvin’s knee (he was actually unresponsive after about 7 minutes). What do you think caused his death if not the knee? Do you think Floyd would have lived at least to the next day if he hadn’t encountered Chauvin?

 
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28 April 2021 15:14
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:43 PM

This was the stupidest part of the entire trial. Choking (until someone starts blacking out) is not that dangerous.

Since you and the person kneeling on you were not chauvin and floyd, you don’t know if the force and duration and positions used are identical.  Of course depriving someone of air for 9+ minutes is dangerous.  Of course asphyxia is not to be taken lightly.  Your experience is not an accurate reproduction of what happened to floyd at the hands of chauvin, as much as you’d like to think so. Even your attitude and that of your ‘aggressor’ were probably different from that of floyd and chauvin.


Are you a medical professional?  Do you know the ins and outs of respiratory distress and anoxia? The doctors called to testify indicated that without doubt, floyd died of asphyxia.  There is no doubt that chauvin’s actions contributed to that death.  Not to mention the possible long-term side effects of anoxia on floyd’s body after 9+ minutes, even if he had lived.

[ Edited: 28 April 2021 15:20 by Jefe]
 
 
MrRon
 
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28 April 2021 15:16
 

That wasn’t my quote.

Ron

 
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28 April 2021 15:20
 
MrRon - 28 April 2021 03:16 PM

That wasn’t my quote.

Ron

mea culpa

Should be fixed now…

 
 
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28 April 2021 15:22
 

No worries, Jefe.

Ron grin

 
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28 April 2021 15:26
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 01:35 PM

This was the stupidest part of the entire trial. Choking (until someone starts blacking out) is not that dangerous.

How about continuing for another 2 minutes after they have become completely unresponsive? And after having said 27 times that you can’t breathe? Would that be dangerous?

Ron

 
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28 April 2021 16:08
 
MrRon - 28 April 2021 02:43 PM

Then why do you think Eric Nelson agreed to those jurors? 
What if the trial did take place in Hawaii or Alaska and still returned a guilty verdict. Would you be satisfied that justice was done?

He did not, he was not allowed to move the venue therefore restricted to a pool of jurors that are way more likely to be ‘compromised’.

Well if the trial was moved to rural Mongolia where nobody knows anything about the circumstances - then I would be satisfied smile ... but that’s not a thing is it ...
Remotest island in Hawaii would still have been better though.

And about cause of death - If I were to be forced to bet money and we had a way of knowing - I would bet on that he would still have died if the knee was on his head not neck. The cause of death was the combination of all the other factors - high dose of opiates and meth, panic, knee-on-back, positional asphyxia, etc ....
But it’s the knee-on-neck that got Chauvin convicted, at least that’s what everyone is arguing.

 
acvm
 
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28 April 2021 16:09
 

Anyway disappointed that everyone here seems to be ‘debating’ in the sense of just trying to push a point rather then try understand other opinions - that’s what I’m interested in.

 
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28 April 2021 16:18
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 04:09 PM

Anyway disappointed that everyone here seems to be ‘debating’ in the sense of just trying to push a point rather then try understand other opinions - that’s what I’m interested in.

But you don’t seem terribly interested in our opinions…

 
 
MrRon
 
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28 April 2021 18:32
 
acvm - 28 April 2021 04:08 PM
MrRon - 28 April 2021 02:43 PM

Then why do you think Eric Nelson agreed to those jurors? 
What if the trial did take place in Hawaii or Alaska and still returned a guilty verdict. Would you be satisfied that justice was done?

He did not, he was not allowed to move the venue therefore restricted to a pool of jurors that are way more likely to be ‘compromised’.

Whether or not jurors may be ‘compromised’ is determined during jury selection, and is cause for dismissal. Nelson did dismiss at least 1 potential juror but was then satisfied with the final jury of 6 whites, 4 blacks, and 2 that were multiracial.

Well if the trial was moved to rural Mongolia where nobody knows anything about the circumstances - then I would be satisfied smile ... but that’s not a thing is it ...
Remotest island in Hawaii would still have been better though.

Is there any scenario in which you would accept a guilty verdict out of Minnesota?

And about cause of death - If I were to be forced to bet money and we had a way of knowing - I would bet on that he would still have died if the knee was on his head not neck. The cause of death was the combination of all the other factors - high dose of opiates and meth, panic, knee-on-back, positional asphyxia, etc ....
But it’s the knee-on-neck that got Chauvin convicted, at least that’s what everyone is arguing.

My question wasn’t if the knee were on the head. My question was… Do you think Floyd would have lived at least to the next day if he hadn’t encountered Chauvin?

PS - Also, for what it’s worth, I just saw a TV interview with one of the jurors and he said they felt no outside pressure to deliver a guilty verdict. He also said that if Chauvin took the stand it may have changed some jurors opinions.

Ron

 
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