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The Real X Files

 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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20 May 2021 21:52
 

The 80s sci-fi series, the X Files, had a famous motto concerning UFOs: I Want to Believe. Well, agent Muller would be pleased by the turn of events lately. The Pentagon has admitted that they really do exist — Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP)— also known as UFOs. It released three Navy videos recently which show objects hurtling through the sky, one rotating against the wind, and pilots can be heard expressing confusion and awe. These sighting by military pilots have been going on for years.

The pilots themselves, gun targeting cameras, and ship radar have reported these UAPs as breaking the laws of known physics. They have no obvious source of propulsion. They can drop 80,000 feet in seconds. They can turn perpendicular to the path they were heading, on a dime. They can accelerate so fast that their G-force speeds are estimated to be around six or seven hundred. In contrast, modern fighter planes flown by humans are know to hit only 9 Gs maximum.

Last Sunday, 60 Minutes ran a segment about it.

The US Senate has launched an investigation headed by the Director of National Intelligence and the Secretary of Defense. They want a report on the UAP sightings by next month.

And of course, the biggest question of all is: What are they?

Any guesses? Any personal sightings?

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MrRon
 
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22 May 2021 05:32
 

I saw the 60 Minutes segment on this. Very interesting. However, let’s not get it twisted. The leap from unknown lights/objects in the sky to extraterrestrial visitors is an unjustified one. But, let’s see what further investigation turns up. 

And no, I have never had a personal sighting. Moreover, why are the people who study the sky the most - amateur and professional astronomers - the least likely to report UAPs? It’s because they are more familiar with aerial phenomena such as planets, meteors, anomalous clouds, lightning, weather balloons, the ISS, and these days drones.

PS - On a recent Michael Shermer Podcast he interviewed UFOlogist Alan Steinfeld, and part of the discussion was about these navy sightings that 60 Minutes covered. Here is that podcast for those interested:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sVIX6C-7_8

Ron

 
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22 May 2021 12:22
 

Is my response being blocked by aliens?  Is it because the computer thinks x files may be porn?

(tried again, but it wouldn’t go through).  Is this youtube video the problem?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLagODygcbs

Anyone else having trouble responding to this topic?

[ Edited: 22 May 2021 12:28 by unsmoked]
 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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23 May 2021 00:09
 
MrRon - 22 May 2021 05:32 AM

I saw the 60 Minutes segment on this. Very interesting. However, let’s not get it twisted. The leap from unknown lights/objects in the sky to extraterrestrial visitors is an unjustified one. But, let’s see what further investigation turns up. 

And no, I have never had a personal sighting. Moreover, why are the people who study the sky the most - amateur and professional astronomers - the least likely to report UAPs? It’s because they are more familiar with aerial phenomena such as planets, meteors, anomalous clouds, lightning, weather balloons, the ISS, and these days drones.

PS - On a recent Michael Shermer Podcast he interviewed UFOlogist Alan Steinfeld, and part of the discussion was about these navy sightings that 60 Minutes covered. Here is that podcast for those interested:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sVIX6C-7_8

Ron

I’ve gotten about halfway through the Shermer podcast. Steinfeld is a little too far out there for my tastes. Shermer has a very non-committal view on the topic: we don’t know what they are so let’s not jump to conclusions. That’s about what I would expect from him.

I do disagree with the way he summed up the Navy flight footage. He quotes an expert on optical equipment who says the gun camera is merely picking up an electronic artifact of some kind and that the object tilts as the camera tilts, implying there was no actual object in the sky that it was following. Then Shermer pretty much writes off the four eye witness pilots and crew who reported seeing the UAP. He indirectly links them to the “dancing sun” mass hallucination during the Lady of Fatima occurrence, implying that they were hallucinating. But neither he, nor Steinfeld mention the radar tracking of the the Navy ship USS Princeton, which recorded these objects as well. Also, the object the flight crew saw, disappeared then reappeared sixty miles away and again was recorded by ship and flight radar. I think this is too much evidence to simply dismiss as faulty equipment and mass hallucinations.

Whatever these things are, they do not behave like some mindless natural phenomenon, such as swamp gas or ball lightening. In fact, they behave totally unnaturally, breaking the laws the known physics. The tale pilot David Fravor tells of the tic tac shaped UAP flying upward to meet his plane and mimicking his moves indicates the object was moving with a determined will, and not moving randomly. He even states that it seemed to know they were there. So I think these objects have a definite intelligence behind them.

And simply saying that they may be advance secret technology of the Russians or Chinese without proof is no more of an explanation that saying they might be made by extra-terrestrial life. And frankly, in my opinion, judging by the way these UAPs behave, I’d say they fit more into the extra-terrestrial category. If the Chinese or Russians are that far technologically advance, the US might as well throw in the towel.

 
 
EN
 
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23 May 2021 05:36
 

Odds are there is life out there, and odds are that some of it is intelligent.  Since we’ve only been around a short time, odds are that some intelligent life is far more advanced than we are.  So, i have no problem accepting the possibility that this could be ET life, but I’ll wait for more proof.  If it is ET, seems like they are more intent on studying the earth than destroying it or taking over. Or maybe they are just fucking with us.

 
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23 May 2021 06:57
 
Cheshire Cat - 23 May 2021 12:09 AM

I’ve gotten about halfway through the Shermer podcast. Steinfeld is a little too far out there for my tastes. Shermer has a very non-committal view on the topic: we don’t know what they are so let’s not jump to conclusions. That’s about what I would expect from him.

And not jumping to conclusions is the intellectually honest thing to do.

I do disagree with the way he summed up the Navy flight footage. He quotes an expert on optical equipment who says the gun camera is merely picking up an electronic artifact of some kind and that the object tilts as the camera tilts, implying there was no actual object in the sky that it was following. Then Shermer pretty much writes off the four eye witness pilots and crew who reported seeing the UAP. He indirectly links them to the “dancing sun” mass hallucination during the Lady of Fatima occurrence, implying that they were hallucinating.

Do you think the sun actually danced in the sky during the Lady of Fatima incident? If not, how else do you explain the thousands of reports if not by mass hallucination (or, more likely, mass conformity)? If it could happen to thousands, it could certainly happen to 4 individuals. 

But neither he, nor Steinfeld mention the radar tracking of the the Navy ship USS Princeton, which recorded these objects as well. Also, the object the flight crew saw, disappeared then reappeared sixty miles away and again was recorded by ship and flight radar. I think this is too much evidence to simply dismiss as faulty equipment and mass hallucinations.

Perhaps. But is it enough evidence to then claim extraterrestrial visitation? 

Whatever these things are, they do not behave like some mindless natural phenomenon, such as swamp gas or ball lightening. In fact, they behave totally unnaturally, breaking the laws the known physics. The tale pilot David Fravor tells of the tic tac shaped UAP flying upward to meet his plane and mimicking his moves indicates the object was moving with a determined will, and not moving randomly. He even states that it seemed to know they were there. So I think these objects have a definite intelligence behind them.

And simply saying that they may be advance secret technology of the Russians or Chinese without proof is no more of an explanation that saying they might be made by extra-terrestrial life.

Disagree. We KNOW that Russians and Chinese exist. We DON’T know that extraterrestrials exist. So, per Occam’s razor, it is more reasonable to posit that known beings created some advanced secret technology than that unknown beings created some advanced secret technology. 

And frankly, in my opinion, judging by the way these UAPs behave, I’d say they fit more into the extra-terrestrial category. If the Chinese or Russians are that far technologically advance, the US might as well throw in the towel.

The Chinese and/or Russians already have a much better strategy to impose their will on the US. Their disinformation campaigns, social media manipulation, and election meddling likely contributed greatly to the election of Trump. And us having incompetent leaders will serve them just as well (or better) than them having advanced drone-like technology.

One other thing that doesn’t jibe is that in the 60 Minutes segment one official said that the navy saw these objects every day for at least a couple years. EVERY DAY FOR A COUPLE YEARS? If the phenomenon is that common, then why doesn’t the military have more/better footage of them? For crissake, our satellites can practically read license plates. Plus, with the ubiquity of cell phones these days, why isn’t the average person recording UAPs? We should be flooded with lots of good video of unambiguous aircraft, but we’re not.

At any rate, it’s all very interesting. On the spectrum of belief, I would say my current confidence level that UAPs are extraterrestrials visiting us is about 2%. Not impossible mind you, but not very likely.     


Ron grin

 
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23 May 2021 07:14
 
EN - 23 May 2021 05:36 AM

Odds are there is life out there, and odds are that some of it is intelligent.  Since we’ve only been around a short time, odds are that some intelligent life is far more advanced than we are.  So, i have no problem accepting the possibility that this could be ET life, but I’ll wait for more proof.  If it is ET, seems like they are more intent on studying the earth than destroying it or taking over. Or maybe they are just fucking with us.

I agree, but there’s one more “odds” that need to be accounted for - the odds that interstellar space travel is feasible/desirable. I think this is too often overlooked. The distances and physics involved (regardless of how “advanced” a civilization may be) make space travel FAR more daunting than people realize. And then even after those colossal technological hurdles are overcome, an alien civilization would still need a tremendous motivation to leave the comforts of their own solar system to traverse many light years (possibly bypassing other, more interesting life forms) in order to play hide and seek with the lowly inhabitants of the third planet from our sun.

Ron

 
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23 May 2021 09:45
 

Interstellar travel is daunting for us, but who knows for a more advanced civilization.  All of it is speculation, but if another nation here has this technology, then i agree with a previous poster who wrote that we are in trouble.

 
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23 May 2021 10:40
 

All we need to debunk ‘alien visitors in spacecraft’ as an explanation is any second explanation that is slightly more plausible or one notch less crazy. I wish the TV news would treat this as interesting and not another opportunity to be moronic. Let’s get Bill Nye to do a documentary.

Some folks believe that these things form and dissipate in the atmosphere and that they can respond to their environment during their fleeting existence. We can guess what they are responding to with a bias toward our sort of intelligence and cognition. Call them ionized, bio-electric plasma-balls and maybe toss in some panpsychism and we could be seeing mischievous air-gremlins. If they’re alive, they are earthlings who are righteously defending their homesky from a growing invasion of primates. Do we only see them when they’re angry? Any expertise we possess about swamp-gas may not be sufficiently informative on the matter. Even as lifeless phenomena, they do seem to be offering an opinion about our understanding of physical laws.

That is one notch better than some stellarly-distant biped cousins in high-tech machines consorting with our elistist cabal to harvest humans as bio-juice. I hope for two-meter tall bipeds with a face as much as anybody but I expect them to be refined experts of interplanetary courtesy.

It is interesting that we suspect it is a demonstration of someone’s technology. Why further presume it is intentional? What if it is a unintended side effect of our own technology? 

What about sub-dimensional hell-holes where democrats have hidden all the missing t-rump ballots?

Are they angelic beings looking for a chance to miraculously rescue one infant from a devastating earthquake?


It is a puzzle to be explored and not exploited.

 
 
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23 May 2021 11:04
 

Flying saucers from outer space is malarkey.  Voyager 1 is coasting at something like 37,000 mph and it took 45 years to leave our solar system.  There is far too much suspension of disbelief to accept alien visitors came all this way just fuck with us, butt the gullibility of humanity has much more evidence - virgin birth, mermaids, dragons, fairies, Big Foot just to name a few.

The timing of reports of UFOs coincides with our ability to make flying machines, while before that it was flying animals.  Human imagination goes just beyond what is known, and every time the unknown becomes known, then imagination’s goal posts are moved.  Technologically we have reached the edge of the universe of knowledge, and imagination is still filling in the unknown gaps.

 
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23 May 2021 12:42
 
Skipshot - 23 May 2021 11:04 AM

Flying saucers from outer space is malarkey.  Voyager 1 is coasting at something like 37,000 mph and it took 45 years to leave our solar system.  There is far too much suspension of disbelief to accept alien visitors came all this way just fuck with us, butt the gullibility of humanity has much more evidence - virgin birth, mermaids, dragons, fairies, Big Foot just to name a few.

The timing of reports of UFOs coincides with our ability to make flying machines, while before that it was flying animals.  Human imagination goes just beyond what is known, and every time the unknown becomes known, then imagination’s goal posts are moved.  Technologically we have reached the edge of the universe of knowledge, and imagination is still filling in the unknown gaps.

Speaking of ‘before flying machines’ . . . In 1857, while camping in the Maine wilderness, Thoreau found a piece of glowing wood in the night forest.  “The next day the Indian told me their name for this light, and on my inquiring concerning the will-o’-the-wisp, and the like phenomena, he said that his “folks” sometimes saw fires passing along at various heights, even as high as the trees, and making a noise.  I was prepared after this to hear of the most startling and unimagined phenomena, witnessed by “his folks;” they are abroad at all hours and seasons in scenes so unfrequented by white men.  Nature must have made a thousand revelations to them which are still secrets to us.”

 
 
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23 May 2021 13:55
 
EN - 23 May 2021 09:45 AM

Interstellar travel is daunting for us, but who knows for a more advanced civilization.  All of it is speculation, but if another nation here has this technology, then i agree with a previous poster who wrote that we are in trouble.

By all accounts, the speed of light is the cosmic speed limit. For everyone everywhere. The physics of mass and energy are very well known, and it’s a virtual certainty that no amount of advanced technology can overcome this hurdle. So on that alone the prospects of interstellar travel are dim. Again, the universe is VERY VERY big and distances are tremendous. I also think that Hollywood has tainted most people’s notion of space travel via Star Trek and the like. Zipping from planet to planet makes for good science fiction movies, but gives a false sense of the scale of the universe.

As far as other nations having the technology, one has to wonder what they’re waiting for to subjugate the rest of the world. It seems that they’re content in remaining anonymous and playing hide and seek with our aircraft.

Ron

 

 
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24 May 2021 12:37
 
MrRon - 23 May 2021 01:55 PM

As far as other nations having the technology, one has to wonder what they’re waiting for to subjugate the rest of the world. It seems that they’re content in remaining anonymous and playing hide and seek with our aircraft.  Ron

The 60 Minutes episode mentioned pilots seeing something moving at incredible speed and then suddenly vanishing. That seem like the laser lights these cats are chasing?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLagODygcbs

Is someone playing hide and seek with pilots and studying surveillance technology?

Dinosaurs lived here for 165 million years.  What will technology come up with in the next 100 years?  The next 1000, let alone a million years?  Will we evolve philosophically or psychologically in time to save our own blue dot?

 

 
 
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24 May 2021 12:40
 

Well… the dot is going to survive.  It’s the things that crawl over the surface of it that are in danger.

 
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24 May 2021 15:25
 

I went ahead and searched for additional interviews with David Fravor and found this from the Lex Fridman podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E

(skip to 1:11:00 for the Tic Tac encounter, but the whole thing is interesting)

This goes into greater detail than the 60 Minutes segment. And I must say that Fravor comes off as quite credible and gives a compelling account of the incident. I’m still skeptical about alien visitation, but this makes me tend to believe that Fravor and the other pilots did see *something* (both visually and on radar) that day. Still a giant leap to extraterrestrials though. And again, I’m all for investigating further (and not jumping to conclusions prematurely).  grin

I believe Joe Rogan also had Fravor on his podcast, so I’ll be checking that out as well.

Ron      

 
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25 May 2021 01:14
 
MrRon - 24 May 2021 03:25 PM

Still a giant leap to extraterrestrials though.

This is a good place to stop.  Just because we don’t know does not mean we can give credence to speculation.  I don’t want to believe; I want to know.

 
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