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What brings the universe into being?

 
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unsmoked
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04 July 2021 10:56
 
EN - 04 July 2021 10:05 AM

It will require culture to bring human mind into being. Culture provides the sensory input necessary for the brain to develop to the point where it can support mind.  From what I understand, mindfulness then seeks to remove the cultural baggage that comes from the brain- building process to focus on consciousness itself.  That can be a useful exercise.  The part of all this that I don’t agree with is that there is any such thing as inherent mind.  If you mean consciousness itself or awareness itself (Burt distinguishes between consciousness and self- consciousness), I can accept that. But it isn’t inherent in the sense of something we are born with. It comes from our interaction with the world.

You’ve seen nature programs showing the birth of a fawn or a foal - a very vulnerable time -

quote:  “The mother will lick the fawn clean of birth fluid that serves to disguise its scent, which is another protective measure. The mother will urge the fawn to its feet; a newborn can stand within 20 minutes of birth.”  (end quote)

When born, newborns have a lot to learn - but they’re not born without inherent mind - a mind that took billions of years to evolve.  The mother doesn’t teach the fawn how to walk, how to follow and run, how to find milk, how to hold totally still in the grass and not move as she lures the predator away, pretending to be lame. 

Zen master to student:  “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

[ Edited: 04 July 2021 10:59 by unsmoked]
 
 
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04 July 2021 15:06
 
unsmoked - 04 July 2021 10:56 AM
EN - 04 July 2021 10:05 AM

It will require culture to bring human mind into being. Culture provides the sensory input necessary for the brain to develop to the point where it can support mind.  From what I understand, mindfulness then seeks to remove the cultural baggage that comes from the brain- building process to focus on consciousness itself.  That can be a useful exercise.  The part of all this that I don’t agree with is that there is any such thing as inherent mind.  If you mean consciousness itself or awareness itself (Burt distinguishes between consciousness and self- consciousness), I can accept that. But it isn’t inherent in the sense of something we are born with. It comes from our interaction with the world.

You’ve seen nature programs showing the birth of a fawn or a foal - a very vulnerable time -

quote:  “The mother will lick the fawn clean of birth fluid that serves to disguise its scent, which is another protective measure. The mother will urge the fawn to its feet; a newborn can stand within 20 minutes of birth.”  (end quote)

When born, newborns have a lot to learn - but they’re not born without inherent mind - a mind that took billions of years to evolve.  The mother doesn’t teach the fawn how to walk, how to follow and run, how to find milk, how to hold totally still in the grass and not move as she lures the predator away, pretending to be lame. 

Zen master to student:  “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

Instinct and mind are two completely different concepts.  Fawns don’t have a mind.  Neither do babies.

 
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05 July 2021 11:34
 
EN - 04 July 2021 03:06 PM
unsmoked - 04 July 2021 10:56 AM
EN - 04 July 2021 10:05 AM

It will require culture to bring human mind into being. Culture provides the sensory input necessary for the brain to develop to the point where it can support mind.  From what I understand, mindfulness then seeks to remove the cultural baggage that comes from the brain- building process to focus on consciousness itself.  That can be a useful exercise.  The part of all this that I don’t agree with is that there is any such thing as inherent mind.  If you mean consciousness itself or awareness itself (Burt distinguishes between consciousness and self- consciousness), I can accept that. But it isn’t inherent in the sense of something we are born with. It comes from our interaction with the world.

You’ve seen nature programs showing the birth of a fawn or a foal - a very vulnerable time -

quote:  “The mother will lick the fawn clean of birth fluid that serves to disguise its scent, which is another protective measure. The mother will urge the fawn to its feet; a newborn can stand within 20 minutes of birth.”  (end quote)

When born, newborns have a lot to learn - but they’re not born without inherent mind - a mind that took billions of years to evolve.  The mother doesn’t teach the fawn how to walk, how to follow and run, how to find milk, how to hold totally still in the grass and not move as she lures the predator away, pretending to be lame. 

Zen master to student:  “Show me your face before your parents were born.”

Instinct and mind are two completely different concepts.  Fawns don’t have a mind.  Neither do babies.

I watched part of a health program on PBS last night.  The doctor/lecturer mentioned how much information flows from the gut to the brain rather than vice-versa . . . getting a laugh from the audience.

Referring to Fenyang’s quote in the OP, I trust the translator, Thomas Cleary, was careful in choosing the words inherent mindfrom the Chinese text.  He didn’t choose the word ‘instinct’.  Are we at an impasse over the definition of mind?

The self (mental accumulation since birth) can’t know this mind, but if the self stops, it’s there.  Most people try to ‘arrive’ at it via efforts of the self -  ‘But this alienates you even further -  Ii is like running blindly to the east to get something in the west.’

Using self and effort to arrive at peace and quiet?

[ Edited: 05 July 2021 11:57 by unsmoked]
 
 
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05 July 2021 19:01
 

We won’t agree on mind but I’m fine with any mental exercise that clears out the clutter. Truce.

 
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07 July 2021 12:36
 
EN - 05 July 2021 07:01 PM

We won’t agree on mind but I’m fine with any mental exercise that clears out the clutter. Truce.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/japan-s-unusual-way-to-view-the-world?utm_source=pocket-newtab

(quote)  “Today it encapsulates a more relaxed acceptance of transience, nature and melancholy, favouring the imperfect and incomplete in everything, from architecture to pottery to flower arranging.”  [to discussions?]

[ Edited: 07 July 2021 12:39 by unsmoked]
 
 
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08 July 2021 10:30
 

Once I was helping a client put together a complicated oil trade deal. He was a redneck, a “come and take it” kind of Texan.  He told me once that after this was all over, he was going to go sit in a field and stare at a tree.  We all have our ways of getting there.

 
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15 July 2021 14:45
 

You don’t need to join a monastery, or spend years meditating in a cave, or to pull your hair out in frustration trying to solve a Zen koan. You can see your true self, the self mystics talk about, very quickly if you are open to it.

The text below is from Richard Lang’s book, “Seeing who you really are.”

Here is a letter I received from an American friend who is the abbot of a Zen temple in Japan:

Dear Richard,
Something interesting happened last night. I was visited by a man that I didn’t know very well and he noticed a calligraphic scroll I had hanging, with only the character for “Mu” (nothingness) on it. He asked, “Toler san, have you ever entered the world of Mu?” I said, “Yes, many times.” Then he asked, “How can you do it? At what times do you do it?” I said, “Oh, you can do it anytime.” He asked, “How?” So I led him through the pointing exercise. When I came to the question, “Now, what do you see at the place where your finger is pointing?” he said, “Nothing.” I said, “Well, that’s Mu, isn’t it?” He thought about that for about ten seconds, then suddenly laughed loudly and clapped his hands and said, “I’ve been pondering that for years, and you showed me in a minute!” And thanked me profusely.
Warmest regard,
John

 

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18 July 2021 11:38
 

Zen master Xiatang weighs in on how to manifest your inherent mind See OP quote, “Few people believe their inherent mind is Buddha.”

quote:  “To learn to be a Buddha, first you should break through the seeds of habit with great determination, and then be aware of cause and effect so that you fear to do wrong.  Transcend all mental objects, stop all rumination.  Don’t let either good or bad thoughts enter into your thinking, forget about both Buddhism [or any other religion] and things of the world.  Let go of body and mind, like letting go over a cliff.  Be like space, not producing subjective thoughts of life and death, or any signs of discrimination.  If you have any views at all, cut them right off and don’t let them continue.”  -  Zen master Xiatang

Xiatang quoted from the book, ‘ZEN ESSENCE - The Science of Freedom’ - translated and edited by Thomas Cleary

 
 
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