Glenn Loury interviews Charles Murray

 
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27 June 2021 18:06
 

What do you think causes a black man like Glenn Loury to develop the worldview he has?  Is he misunderstanding his lived experience?

https://youtu.be/wqgUclg7-Lk

 
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30 June 2021 07:08
 

I have no idea what causes it.  I don’t think he’s misunderstanding his own lived experience, but that doesn’t mean he speaks for all black people.  In fact, he (like many conservative people) will often misquote or misattribute ideas to people like MLK jr.  For example, he invokes MLK jr in order to support his claims against reparations.  Except MLK jr did support reparations.  You can hear him say “we are coming to get our check.”

I’m sure his academic rigor in economics is a lot better, because he’s clearly demonstrated a lack of research on this subject that took me all of 30 seconds to find a quote from MLK jr to prove him wrong.  If the first google search provides demonstrable facts that someone is wrong, they clearly have no expertise on the subject.

 
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03 July 2021 11:36
 
diding - 27 June 2021 06:06 PM

What do you think causes a black man like Glenn Loury to develop the worldview he has?  Is he misunderstanding his lived experience?

https://youtu.be/wqgUclg7-Lk

I don’t know what personally caused Glenn Loury to develop his worldview, however, the field he’s in, economics, is pretty conservative in general and associated institutions likely select for prominence in the field based to a large degree on such a worldview.  Being a black man against affirmative action probably was an added booster (for him coming to prominence) because conservatives can point to him and say, look, there’s a black man with our point of view so our point of view must be valid.

That being said I thought there was a lot of blather in the discussion.  Some examples:

- On affirmative action, arguing against it because the American ideal is judging people as individuals.  Well yes, that’s an ideal, but when has it ever been done by government or corporate institutions?  Then going on to note the statistical means of blacks vs whites in intellectual tests - what is that other than judging people as groups?

- Loury asks Murray if he thinks blacks are inferior genetically, to which Murray replies no, everyone has a set of genetic traits, and goes on with a bunch of blather about isolated genetic groups will have different genetic traits (well, sure), and drops some things about black athletic ability.  Note how carefully Loury avoids asking Murray if he thinks blacks are inferior genetically in intellect.

- Criticizes black culture for it’s anti-scholastic achievement features.  I agree where such culture exists, but it’s not common to all black culture nor is it limited to black culture.  There’s a big thread of anti-intellectualism among, shall I say, followers of faux news who think intellectuals look down on them.

-  Complaints about measured intellectual ability not being the independent variable in studies.  Why would that be the correct approach?

- I forget which proposal/study that said nurses should go home with mothers to teach them how to raise their kids, somehow it evolved into there should be more immediate punishment for crimes, more policing, although police should be reformed.  Ignoring the part where environmental factors such as lead can lead at any level can adversely impact intellectual development.

- Fears that black identity politics will cause whites to develop white identity politics, leading to white flight from black (or poor) neighborhoods.  Good grief.  When has “white flight” not been an issue?

Anyway, I thought it was mostly a bunch of blather, even if I might agree with a point or two here and there.  Meandered all over the place.

 
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06 July 2021 15:20
 

From what I’ve heard form Glen’s own accounts of his life, he seems to be check all the boxes that might give his black experience “legitimacy”.  He grew up poor on the South Side of Chicago with a single mother.  He lived around poverty and criminality.  He Had a child out of wedlock in his early 20’s.  He got addicted to cocaine and had extra marital affairs which caused the dissolution of his marriage.  Yet he “lifted himself up by his bootstraps” (in his own words) and overcame his disadvantaged upbringing. 

His story is not the only story of black people in America, but it seems to be the most compelling and emotion eliciting one for self loathing white people and victimization obsessed people of color.  His story is similar to Larry Elder’s and Thomas Sowell’s.  What are they getting wrong?

Here’s Glen on Black News Tonight with Marc Lamont Hill:

https://youtu.be/ey4vskOV-uk

They agree on a good many things, but they very much disagree on the best strategy to lift black people out of their disadvantaged situation.  I was hanging out with my militant black friend, drinking and smoking weed, and we were talking about standardized testing.  The issue of grammar came up and I related the story of how when me and my brother were growing up we would often hear people say to my parents of us “They speak so well and they are so well behaved”.  My parents fled the Marcos dictatorship in 1971.  We suffered all the sleights and “oppression” that any other immigrants might.  At one point my militant black friend said “What do want black people to do, work harder?”, to which I responded “What else are you gonna do?”.  Expecting less of people will not raise them out of whatever disadvantaged situation they came from.

 
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06 July 2021 21:52
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07 July 2021 08:50
 

Black children watch more TV than any other group and their parent read to them less.  Chinese children spend more time on studies than any other group. 

My daughter’s black friends, and she has many of them because of where we live, are all good kids.  They are respectful and studious. Their parents are like us.  They value the same things we do and are raising them like I was raised.  They reflect “Bourgeois values”, the kind that Elder, McWhorter, Hughes, Loury, and Sowell adopted and recommend. .

[ Edited: 07 July 2021 08:53 by diding]
 
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07 July 2021 09:30
 

Yes, your 5 examples are totally a better data set then information about millions of people.  You never address or accept facts that disagree with you.

 
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08 July 2021 07:47
 
weird buffalo - 07 July 2021 09:30 AM

Yes, your 5 examples are totally a better data set then information about millions of people.  You never address or accept facts that disagree with you.

I looked at your charts.  They don’t seem to explain why the data is what it is. 

What facts didn’t I address?

 
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08 July 2021 08:14
 

I think this information is easily confirmed:

Black children watch more TV than any other group and their parent read to them less.  Chinese children spend more time on studies than any other group.

 
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08 July 2021 09:32
 
diding - 08 July 2021 07:47 AM
weird buffalo - 07 July 2021 09:30 AM

Yes, your 5 examples are totally a better data set then information about millions of people.  You never address or accept facts that disagree with you.

I looked at your charts.  They don’t seem to explain why the data is what it is. 

What facts didn’t I address?

You claimed black people aren’t working as hard.  The fact that they work just as many hours, and often at multiple jobs instead of just one (which means more commuting time, which costs money and isn’t paid), tells us that your assertion is false.  Instead of addressing this, by either providing evidence to support your claim, or acknowledging that you were wrong, you instead responded with a non sequitur fact about television habits.

This behavior tells me that you aren’t actually interested in learning or analyzing facts about this situation, you are only looking for information that will confirm what you already know.  Anything that counters your narrative, you will ignore.