< 1 2 3 4 5 > 
 
   
 

Genetics and physical abilities

 
weird buffalo
 
Avatar
 
 
weird buffalo
Total Posts:  1977
Joined  19-06-2020
 
 
 
01 August 2021 09:27
 

Except of course, you still have no actual genetic evidence.  All you’re doing is pointing at skin color.  Are you claiming that the same genes responsible for skin color also affect running ability?

 
Jan_CAN
 
Avatar
 
 
Jan_CAN
Total Posts:  3866
Joined  21-10-2016
 
 
 
01 August 2021 09:54
 
DEGENERATEON - 01 August 2021 09:06 AM

...
Marcell Jacobs won?
“ Son of an Italian mother and an African American father, he was born in El Paso, Texas, where he spent his first 18 months.”
Not exactly Jean Luc-Picard now is he?  That’ll bring the percentage up from 96.

Edit - I’m aware that picard hails from france.  Hopefully you get the point. ...

Due to the fact that so many of the earth’s population aren’t ‘pure-blood’ anything anymore, the OP in regards to “different areas of the world” (code for race?) seems particularly pointless.  Marcell Jacobs ethnicity/nationality, for example.  And Jean-Luc is likely French/British.

 

 
 
mapadofu
 
Avatar
 
 
mapadofu
Total Posts:  1267
Joined  20-07-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 09:57
 

Yep.  The genes inherited from his mother’s side had nothing to do with it.  Why doesn’t his paternal parentage count as just “American”?  If the answer is “you have to look back”, how far do you have to look back? Why? 

Your original question is fundamentally flawed in that it doesn’t take into account the complexities of population genetics.

Also note how the discussion has changed.  Some of the earlier hypotheticals were about random samples from a population.  Now we’re talking about the characteristics /of individuals/, and not just arbitrary individuals, but extremely accomplished individuals.

 

[ Edited: 01 August 2021 10:06 by mapadofu]
 
Skipshot
 
Avatar
 
 
Skipshot
Total Posts:  10801
Joined  20-10-2006
 
 
 
01 August 2021 10:23
 

So much effort to answer a hypothetical question.  DEGEN, you have posted a question and demanded an answer.  Plenty of answers have been given, but you do not like them, therefore the burden of proof is upon you to support your assertion, not to refute objections.  The standard of proof will need to be much higher than casual correlations, ridiculously small sample sizes, and anecdotes if you wish to be taken seriously.

Certainly your question is not original, so there must be some proper studies done to answer your question.  Please post them when you find them, and not only the studies which support your a priori conclusion.  Then we may have a much better discussion.

 
weird buffalo
 
Avatar
 
 
weird buffalo
Total Posts:  1977
Joined  19-06-2020
 
 
 
01 August 2021 10:30
 

Ten times as many slaves were sent to Brazil as sent to the US.  If black people have genes for running faster, why doesn’t Brazil dominate in track and field events?  It’s a larger population and wealthier than Jamaica.  More of your supposed “running genes” than the US.  And yet, South America is the worst performing continent in sprinting.

Degen, your theory fails to predict outcomes based on population demographics.

[ Edited: 01 August 2021 11:07 by weird buffalo]
 
DEGENERATEON
 
Avatar
 
 
DEGENERATEON
Total Posts:  687
Joined  14-09-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 11:23
 
weird buffalo - 01 August 2021 09:27 AM

Except of course, you still have no actual genetic evidence.  All you’re doing is pointing at skin color.  Are you claiming that the same genes responsible for skin color also affect running ability?

I think you know that’s not what I’m claiming.  There are different groups, populations, races, whatever you want to call it around the world.  They have different physical appearances.  Some of these groups have greater athletic abilities than others.  Environment doesn’t appear to be the determining factor in this.  To be more clear, the environment may be entirely responsible for whatever genetic language exists at this point in time, but you can’t just toss someone into the best environment and instantly change it.  Those with the genetic history to excel at athletics will have the advantage.
The fact that these populations have moved around doesn’t make a difference- we can trace ancestry with dna right?  And most of these populations still have a significant footprint in these countries.

 
lynmc
 
Avatar
 
 
lynmc
Total Posts:  735
Joined  03-08-2014
 
 
 
01 August 2021 11:27
 

Birth month (which has nothing to do with genetics) apparently has a significant impact on athletic ability:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24886927/

This (if I read it right) is above and beyond the selection bias - children born in certain months are selected due to being at a better physical development stage when team athletes are first decided:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/birthday-effect-college-athletics

 
mapadofu
 
Avatar
 
 
mapadofu
Total Posts:  1267
Joined  20-07-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 11:44
 

“Some of these groups have greater athletic abilities than others.” 

If this is a descriptive statement about the apparent success of one group or another at some particular sport, where is the scientific study that shows that this dominance is primarily, or even significantly, genetic?

Time and time again you’ve been presented with the confounds, yet you can’t get past the idea of genetic determinism.

Cue Hitchens’ Razor.

[ Edited: 01 August 2021 13:42 by mapadofu]
 
mapadofu
 
Avatar
 
 
mapadofu
Total Posts:  1267
Joined  20-07-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 12:35
Rick Robson
 
Avatar
 
 
Rick Robson
Total Posts:  119
Joined  22-09-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 13:18
 

I’ve never actually delved into the thread’s subject matter in order to acquire some minimum level of acknowledgement, but I’m personally not convinced to do so yet. Therefore, I just couldn’t help but speculate, but as it seems still no unanimously recognised and accepted scientific theory has come across about it thus far.

So, as a side note, as the African native people are directly descendants from several African ancient tribes, I reckon that they carry on their genes some unique characteristics which stem from at least dozens of thousands of years of perpetuated cultural/social behaviours. One obvious example is their natural ability to perform their ancient African ritual dances which are incredibly unique and seemingly more varied than the whole scope of ritual dances from other continents. Hence, as a matter of fact the massive majority of African-Brasilian people are born here with an incredibly accurate, unique (and unbeatable) ability to perform the Samba dance, which shares with the African ancient rituals some unique techniques. Their natural ability also stand out in a bunch of specific English football (soccer) techniques like “dribles” and “feint”, amongst others on that specific category of corporal expression.

As for the genetics influence on sports, our ancient ancestors sure would have had an advantage in the categories of athletics, since hunting and gathering was presumably the major subsistence strategy employed by human societies beginning around a million years ago or so, IIRC. But nobody here touched upon the Chess game, which some may not agree with me but AFAIC it’s also a sport, since it practices the brain “muscles”. And, just for the record, Tanitoluwa Emmanuel Adewumi (10.years old) is a Nigerian-American chess player who currently holds the title of USCF National Master.

[ Edited: 01 August 2021 13:21 by Rick Robson]
 
DEGENERATEON
 
Avatar
 
 
DEGENERATEON
Total Posts:  687
Joined  14-09-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 15:36
 
mapadofu - 01 August 2021 11:44 AM

“Some of these groups have greater athletic abilities than others.” 

If this is a descriptive statement about the apparent success of one group or another at some particular sport, where is the scientific study that shows that this dominance is primarily, or even significantly, genetic?

Time and time again you’ve been presented with the confounds, yet you can’t get past the idea of genetic determinism.

Cue Hitchens’ Razor.

It’s not just a statement of apparent success- it’s a description of reality.  You and weird want the exact combination of genes listed in some study.  Fair enough - maybe I need to look harder or maybe it’s not as easy to find for whatever political reason.  But can’t we form reasonable explanations based on the data that we know?  Blacks are highly over represented in the NFL and NBA.  With all of the talk of white privilege and wealth and opportunity how is this possible?  Many more whites here with greater resources, better access to nutrition and training.  And they certainly have motivation to succeed in these sports.  But your response is “show me the precise genes”.  The experiment has been running in front of us and it seems like there must be a genetic answer. 
The brass tacks is I will try to research this - and I’m open to being completely confused on the matter.  The confounds presented haven’t changed my mind yet.

 

 
mapadofu
 
Avatar
 
 
mapadofu
Total Posts:  1267
Joined  20-07-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 17:16
 

Asked and answered https://forum.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/72920/#926143
(By weird in post #2)

Yeah, it might be a good idea to actually do some reading about the topic.

[ Edited: 01 August 2021 17:19 by mapadofu]
 
mapadofu
 
Avatar
 
 
mapadofu
Total Posts:  1267
Joined  20-07-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 17:23
 

Scandinavians have dominated Nordic skiing.  Kenyans long distance running.  Both are long distance endurance sports.  Do you not see that there is maybe a potential reason other than genetics to explain this difference?  I mean fucking Nordic is in the literal name of one of the sports.

 
DEGENERATEON
 
Avatar
 
 
DEGENERATEON
Total Posts:  687
Joined  14-09-2017
 
 
 
01 August 2021 17:30
 
mapadofu - 01 August 2021 05:16 PM

Asked and answered https://forum.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/72920/#926143
(By weird in post #2)

Yeah, it might be a good idea to actually do some reading about the topic.

Answered?  I don’t think so.

Would you humor me and answer this question?  There are groups of people around the world.  They have different skin color, different hair, eye color, physiques, etc.  What explains these differences?

 
Cheshire Cat
 
Avatar
 
 
Cheshire Cat
Total Posts:  1939
Joined  01-11-2014
 
 
 
01 August 2021 17:48
 
DEGENERATEON - 01 August 2021 03:36 PM

But can’t we form reasonable explanations based on the data that we know?  Blacks are highly over represented in the NFL and NBA… The experiment has been running in front of us and it seems like there must be a genetic answer.

You seem to be dancing around something on this thread, and I’m wondering if this is mostly it:
What effect has slavery had on modern black athleticism due to artificial selection?

Is this what this thread is really about?

 
 
 < 1 2 3 4 5 >